Response to "How not to be that guy."
http://www.kekkai.org/alanna/thatguy.html
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Translations from a masculist perspective. Or a response from “that guy.”
This entire essay is in very poor taste. Wo0men react to this as if its helpful, when if I wrote a similar guide on how not to trip the gold digging vapid tease/whore reaction I'd be blasted as a male chauvinist.
Entitlement:
Let me open by saying...
You are not entitled to influence my behaviors in anyway in which I am not entitled to influence yours. You don't get to invent rules for me OF ANY KING outside the normal social contract established between ALL HUMANS. Your vag does not make you special. Equality is the name of the game and you're attacking it, plain and simple.
The irony is thick here considering the implication that you feel you are entitled to the opposite of the behavior you describe.
“If you approach me with the presumption, stated or implied, that I owe you anything -- my time, my attention, my energy, my conversation, my acquiescence to your desires -- that's entitlement. “
Translation: I'm a girl and therefor only my opinion matters. No matter where I am, or how I got there, I am in charge. I may be standing in your home, drinking your booze, eating your pizza, sitting on your couch, watching your friends play your ps3, but I don't even owe you conversation because I have a vagina.
Wrong. Yes you DO owe me recognition under certain circumstances. This even ground bullshit has got to go when the whole world gives you power just because you're in position of a vag. Put simply, with power comes responsibility, and what you owe depends on what you take, a vagina only means a unilateral absolute free ride if you're a spoiled sexist princess, which clearly you are.
This whole section is like hanging a sign up out front that says “lemonade inside” and then bitching (pun intended) when people knock on your door because you wanted a specific person to come looking for that lemonade, in this case Brad Pitt. Cast a wide net and you're gunna get a lot of boots. Don't blame the sea, or the boots. You're the one throwing the net. Until out country spends less on makeup than it does on health care, you're going to have to choose between keeping quiet or looking like a moron to anyone with an eye for simple logic. But then again those “tits” are showcased specifically to short cut logic aren't they, because if the men were thinking logically they'd pay a hooker rather than put up with your parasitic shit.
And I love the bit about rescuing the girl, this keeps the queue moving. “Hey men, I don't want to have to work up the balls to tell this annoying asshole to go away, will you do it for me like everything else in my life?”
Fight your own battles broad, odds are merely to be in your presence I had to put up with crazy bullshit ranging from evil bosses and bullshit schools, to fights and total submersion of who I really am. I'm tired of wearing your uniform and living up to your idea of what a man is. I'm tired of every song telling me I'm worthless without one of you lampreys sucking at my fiscal belly. I'm tired of the constant sexual lies, and the endless sexual innuendo wrapped in romantic platitude.
Hell even a drawn heart is shaped like a girl bending over or cleavage. Quit making EVERYTHING YOU ARE about sex and then calling men pigs for thinking about it.
I ask you, what percentage of movie, song, and literature would be annihilated if I asked a genie to remove all trace of romantic subtext from all recorded media. Most movies would be half an hour long, full 9/10ths of all music would vanish, if not more. Trillions of photographs, totally not including porn. Paintings, poems. Everything tells men to see women as godlike, which I have 0 problem with begin somewhat submissive sexually, and into D/s. What I do have a problem with is entitlement.
“Mostly because introducing sexual orientation into this would complicate it umpteen billion times over. “
Right because when your being a total female chauvinist equality really makes circular arguments transparent. We'd hate to remind the reader that this whole document is based on a sexist assumption. One which encourages lying. One would think you'd not want to teach men how to avoid begin “that guy,” since now “that guy” can lie about it and get closer to you.
But thats the whole point isn't it. Men are supposed to utterly suppress what they are these days to live up to absurd and unrealistic expectations. Liars get laid, and men are not to blame, when women punish the honest. Now granted women are held to some pretty high unrealistic expectations as well, but they share more of the fault for this since it is women who control the paradigm so long and men pursue and women choose, generally.
“I'm using the phrase "That Guy" here, because the people who display these behaviours are predominantly male; these behaviours come from a place of privilege, and right now, in our society, the men have the privilege. “
Without getting to much into it. I'll simply say prove it. Show me a single area of male superiority and I'll show you you're wrong. This challenge stands to all humanity, in the context of the American society (as of 2008). I can logically demonstrate any conclusion presented here, and I will defend it. My contact information IS here. I am not afraid to attach my name to this work for all of the world to see. Because I'm in the right.
http://innomen.blogspot.com/2008/02/masculism-now.html
“Then say to the guy, once she's gone: "Hey, I think you were making her feel really awkward. Back off a little next time, hey?" “
Right because god forbid she'd have to own up honestly to her discomfort. You should do all the work for her, after all its the man's job to pursue and risk being totally humiliated and shot down, its the girls job to be pampered for having a vagina. Right? Wrong.
“If you make me think that you think you can express a wish and I will fulfill that wish, that's entitlement. “ (and related statements)
You're blaming me for what you think!? I can “make” you think a certain way? Wow, how is that any different than blaming a girl for “making” me horny from across the room (even when not dressing like a French maid), and then calling her a tease?
Someone clearly has no understanding of human emotions. And why should you, its not like they matter when you're a totally pampered sociopath. In the real world, emotions are uncontrollable, the only things that are controllable are our reactions to them.
Every emotion is equally valid, only our actions and statements are up for scrutiny.
“It is so hard to explain how this is made manifest. “
Thats because its completely subjective and at your whim. Plus you probably don't want to admit your real motives. Fact is, all of these negative traits would suddenly be positive if coming from an obviously desirable mate. Arrogance would become confidence, vanity would become style, sexism would become chivalry, and so on.
“And trust me, I can tell the difference between you looking at my tits (because yeah, they're kind of hard to miss) and you looking at my tits and building elaborate fantasies about what they would feel like pressed up against you. “
Aside from the fact that this behavior would be alluring if it came from a man you wanted. Limited Brands Inc stock price tripled from '98 to the present. They own Victoria Secret. If you've ever worked in a mall or near one of these stores they are not packed with men. VS is kept afloat by women looking to draw attention, and judging by their fiscal profile and target demographic, thats a huge chunk of American women.
“I can absolutely tell the minute you get the bright idea, spoken or unspoken, that you're continuing our interaction for the sole or even the primary purpose of building the chance to feel those tits down the road. “
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.” - Carl Sagan. Is it fun being a psychic? And if you did possess this ability are you telling me that you'd not cultivate it if the target was a rich attractive prince? We both know better.
“There are a lot of men out there who are looking for someone to service their emotional needs... “
Again, if this came from Brad Pitt you'd say it was a tenderness and sensitivity, an honesty or openness. Your advice here is a trap, designed to keep nice guys way the hell away to make room for abusive pricks, which girls reward with children at a staggering rate in this country. Just look at our accidental and teen pregnancy, divorce, and domestic abuse rates. You as a gender regularly generally pick lying assholes.
How many chess club kids are in jail for domestic assault? What percentage of chess club kids got laid last night? And now drunken loud mouth abusive frat boys with beamers?
“These are the men who are poisoning the well and making it harder for us to believe you when you say that you want to help “
Did you miss the part where this whole post is basically a course on how to lie? Men who behave the ways you complain about are not going to read this and see the light they are going to read it and play the game. Don't complain about liars when you punish the honest.
“If you catch yourself thinking that of course you're not like those men, stop and take a good hard look at yourself...”
This is as ethically disgusting as how the television makes young women feel about how they look. “If you catch yourself thinking you're beautiful enough, stop and take a good hard look at your body...”
“You clearly did offend someone, or else the dogpile wouldn't have happened. “
Good to know that being right has NOTHING to do with it in your world. People can be offended and in the wrong at the same time. Go explain to a KKK man about how racism tends to stem from insecurity. You'll offend some people, but you'll also be right.
You need to explore moral absolutism and its logical pitfalls.
“It is a very sad fact that nine times out of ten, people with privilege, who are exercising that privilege in a way that makes other people feel uncomfortable, will not hear the fact that they are making other people uncomfortable until it's pointed out to them by someone with the same privilege. They literally will not process what people are saying. It happens all the time, and it is so subtle and pervasive that people don't see it even when someone calls them on it. “
L M A O, and the irony meter explodes leaving a crater the size of Cape Cod. Nosce te ipsum lady.
“And no. You don't get laid cookies for being an ally. “
Exactly. Assholes get cookies. Ladder theory anyone?
“He's going to beg, and plead, and guilt-trip, and pressure, and try by any emotional blackmail possible to turn that "no" into a "yes". “
Because it works. Virtually every romantic movie is some man's struggle to meet some women's requirements. To overcome her hesitation. Survey women in relationship over a year old and ask them why they are still in them. Guilt, fear and other negative emotions are going to be common answers. Maybe not the majority but significant, this suggests (but admittedly does not prove) that emotional blackmail is effective. The responsibility for that effectiveness rests with women, especially in an age where an EPO is a phone call away, and every city in the union has a battered women's shelter. And I won't even get into gun ownership. In my state you only have to FEEL threated to respond with deadly force legally. Don't blame men for exploiting your bad judgment.
“This can be really blatant -- trying to use physical intimidation to gain reluctant consent, for instance, like constantly trying to touch her or loom over her or get in her space -- or more subtle. The more subtle form can be anything from constantly dropping conversational references to the question or proposition, to the very very subtle "puppy dog eyes". “
Again, all of which would be rewarded if coming from the right “kind” of guy. (I'll refrain from further speculation on just what that kind of guy is.)
“Because the society we live in, the society women move through, is one of pressure. Constant pressure. (etc)“
Pressure imposed by their own decisions. Monogamy forces competition and women dictate monogamy. Men only wish for security. And since the majority of pregnancies are accidental children don't come into this. I've written almost a whole book on monogamy and its horrific impact on human culture. Women perpetuate monogamy to raise the value of erotic capitol. Sociology 101.
You want men to stay sexually tense so you can keep one of them all to yourself as a fucking pet, and trade sex which you have an infinite supply of for fiscal and social gain.
“We live in a world of the the male gaze, and it's reflected in the notion that women's bodies are communal resources. “
Thats simple biology. Testosterone is the sex hormone for both genders, men have more, men want to have sex more, that means in a culture where rape is prohibited and lethal competition between mates is prohibited men are going to be pursuers and women are going to be choosers. Since women dictate sexual terms, and enforce monogamy, it becomes in their interest to be as sexy as possible to attract the largest number of mates to filter for a good single one. Quit choose mates in such a way as to perpetuate this system. Learn to share like a grown up.
“...and I don't want to argue with another fucking horny jackass who's just doing this to try to get into my pants...” (...for free, when what I really need is a guy who measures up to my ludicrous standards to lie to me convincingly and make appropriate gestures both fiscal and emotive, to get into my pants.)
Lack of judgment on your part does not constitute failure on my part. You assume all men are would be rapists. Asking us to cater to your insecurity is unfair, when you're the ones who cultivate the mind destroying levels of sexual tension for profit in the first place.
“Persistence is not a virtue. Don't be That Guy. And if you see or overhear another man countering a "no" with "well, but --", you should repeat, very firmly and loudly, "Dude, she said no." Whether it has to do with sex or not. “
Right, so that she can reward the new guy with a sweet look and pass both of you up for the monstrous rich cute asshole at the other end of the room who will eventually make her feel like a totally worthless skin flap, after having fucked her all through the best years of her life.
“But to a woman's ears, that sounds a whole lot like "Let me come along and tell this woman (who cannot possibly be as smart as a man) about all the things that she thinks she knows. Because she can't possibly know them. “
So if I had a vagina that would some how change the logic of my position towards the correct side? Who gives a shit what it sounds like, here I was thinking what it IS would matter a touch more.
“Whether or not that's what you mean, that is what women hear. “
And thats MY fault!? Spoiled much?
“If you are ever, ever in a conversation about anything relating to gender expression, sexism, male/female relations, etc, and you catch yourself thinking, "She doesn't understand, and I need to explain this to her," stop. Walk away from the discussion (if it's online) or shut your mouth (if it's in person), and ask yourself: is it really that "she doesn't understand"? Or is it that she's coming from a place so different than yours that you feel like she doesn't understand your position? Do you think she doesn't understand your position because she doesn't agree with your position? “
Why is this my responsibility again? Why is it not equally applicable to the woman? Are you not doing the exact same sort of “explaining”? Let me guess, because you're a woman, right?
“In the case of clear-cut facts, there is an objective truth: you can reasonably expect to find the "right" answer. “
Not really, all truth descends from axioms which are unprovable.
http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/Philosophy/axioms/axioms/node34.html
“No, really. Women know how their world works. For us, it works kinda shitty at times, thanks. “
If we're going to be generalists then the latest research would suggest a healthy “Not really.”
The world is too big to know concretely personally, which is what the female brain excels at. Thus to know it one must know it as an abstraction, and this is what the male brain is built for apparently. I certainly have a gift for large scale systems abstraction. And to say that the reason most great global leaders were male is the subject of sexism its simplistic and defeatist. A big part is women simply don't want that kind of power because they don;t need it to reproduce successfully like men do, thanks Genghis Khan for proving that beyond a shadow of a doubt, and a smaller but equally significant part is they probably just suck at it.
“This male advantage in seeing patterns and abstract relationships - what could be called general strategic rather than detailed tactical thinking - perhaps explains the male dominance of chess, even in a country like the U.S.S.R, where the game is a national sport played by both sexes. An alternative explanation, more acceptable to those who would deny the biological basis of sex differences, is that women have become so conditioned to the fact of male chess playing superiority that they subconsciously assign themselves lower expectations; but this is a rather wilful rejection of scientific evidence for the sake of maintaining a prejudice. “ - Anne Moir, Ph.D
“It's true for her, and she doesn't need you telling her how things 'really' are. “
So if a girl tells me that the planet has 2 billion people on it, its true for her? No.
“The fail happens when you take what people are saying to you and start coming up with arguments to counter and invalidate those experiences. “
So I'm not allowed to think critically at all now? I can see where you'd demand that given the quality of your work thus far.
“But if you've said or done something to call down the dogpile, please stomp on the initial impulse to come out swinging, no matter how in-the-right you think you are -- because a basic fact of possessing privilege is that you have to be really careful to avoid anything that looks like you're trying to silence the people without that privilege. And just about any defense at this point is going to come across like you're trying to use your privilege to silence people. “
Clever false choice. Third option; “that guy” actually IS provably, logically, and demonstrably, right, and is being wrongfully, spitefully, and childishly, attacked. At which point “swinging” is ethically demanded.
The dog pile is the mob. Being in the majority does not make you right, being right makes you right.
“There are things you don't know. There are things you can never know. You can be told about them, and you can, as you start to open your eyes and observe and listen, start to see and hear them, but you can never experience them firsthand. “
The smoldering remains of the irony meter actually twitch at the bottom of it's glassed crater.
“You can start to understand, but it will never be your world the way it is for a woman. “
Right because being born with a vagina gives one an intimate first had understanding of what its like to be stoned to death for being raped, just like being part German gives me the visceral understanding of what its like to be broken on the wheel.
Face it, if you're white, speak English, and have bread money, you probably don't know what real horror is. The difference between us is that I own up to this ignorance.
“And then stop and listen to what is being said to you, and imagine, as hard as you can, that the world being described to you is your world, and work from there. “
Again, why is this my problem? How does this not apply to women?
“Work from the perspective of: this is not my experience, but it clearly is her experience, and her experience is just as valid for her as mine is for me. “
And yet all the responsibility is apparently mine, and all the power is apparently yours. Fuck that. If you want true equality you'll submit your position to the rule of evidence, the only thing that isn't bias. Oh but them I'm not respecting your emotional boundaries. Sorry, the physical constants don't give a shit about how you wish gravity would work. Otherwise its all favorite color bullshit.
“She didn't misunderstand. She's not imagining things. It is possible. You just don't see it, because you have the privilege of ignoring it if you want to. “
Again clever use of the false dilemma fallacy. Third option; She actually is wrong, and he can prove it.
“And women don't owe you an education.“ Actually all who understand owe education to all who are willing to learn, thats the legacy of communication tribalism, and intelligence. It's part of the social contract and basic human ethics.
“Because that's when you start realizing that things should change. “
You REALLY want change? Share your boyfriend. Yea, thought not. Scrap relationships entirely. Quit asking for “commitment”. Live and let live as a human being surrounded by other human beings of differing type intention intelligence and compassion. Select each action base don each situation with an eye towards making yourself and those around your happier and healthier. THAT would change things. Work for a living instead of husband hunting. Dress comfortably instead of sexily. Throw away your make up. Ask yourself how much of what it is to be a woman you got out of a magazine or off the television. Define for yourself what your life should be about. IGNORE gender. Live as a human instead of a woman.
Stop using words like slut and whore to describe people who share sex. Stop confusing sex with love.
Yea, thought not.
“The absolute last words you should ever say in a discussion of sexual assault are "men can be raped too". “
Fact: The majority of rape victims are men. And before you toss out that prisoners deserve it, consider the majority of prisoners are there for drug charges. You think selling an ounce of crack should be punishable by rape?
“Or, well, pretty much anything that attempts to shift the focus of the conversation, subtly or not-so-subtly, away from women's problems and onto men's problems. “
Right, because men's problems don't count (much like those prisoners). Suck ti up, be a man. Right? Lady, we're both human, and have rights. You don't get to tell me what mine aren't. Thats how the social contract works. I don't kill you, you don't kill me, and on down the line. You wanna scrap that? Be my guest, just own up to it. I respect a hard core anarchist.
“because men are the group with the privilege “
Again, prove it. I can prove the opposite (in western or American culture) under any objective measure. Try me.
“it does not matter what your intention is. “
Yes, actually it does, to ethical thinking humans, anyway.
“Does this make you angry? Does it make you feel upset? Do you feel like your right to speak, like your right to be heard, has been silenced?
That's the space many women live in all the time.”
I can say the same. The difference between us is I don't see my oppression as granting me any special rights that women are not granted. I actually want equality. You merely want revenge.
“After-the-fact: “
Not good enough, I don't have to have been raped to know rape is HORROR. And there are many kinds of rape. If I had to pick between the rufie date rape and the prison rape, I'd pick the mickey any day of the week.
This post dedicated to Beth, whom I still know nothing about.
Showing posts with label Social Responsibility. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Social Responsibility. Show all posts
Friday, May 2, 2008
Saturday, April 5, 2008
Nude Photography is not Art
Sorry for some nude stumbles i have been stumbling this week, actually i like it as an ART.
I recently fished this gem off a Stumbleupon page of a person with like 600 fans claiming to be a single woman from England. Naturally, her avatar photo looks like a 15 year old leaving for the mall.
Now I don't know this woman, never even spoke to her, or even read her blog other than her profile page, she may actually be what she claims to be, and may not be selling an image to promote various online enterprises, she may also be the most compassionate intelligent woman on the face of the earth. Though I must admit a measure of doubt.
But she's just the straw that broke the camel's back on a subject I've been meaning to speak about. I love a little hottie as much as the rest of you, in fact when I build my robot lover, I'll use photos lifted from 'nude art' blogs as a base for her construction I'm sure.
But I really need to make a point clear here about erotic photography claimed as art. The women may be attractive but you need to understand why. They are not beautiful like a sunset is beautiful. Consider, if it were nude 400 pound flabby hairy men?That's just as much a miracle of biology. Hell even more so. A healthy young woman doesn't inspire any question other than "How best could I sell my soul as her slave to acquire a millisecond of sexual service?" Flabby behemoths are far more interesting, you find yourself thinking "How does it even walk?"
Sex is not art.
Sex is sex and there's nothing wrong with it. After all, I'm the guy that wants to deregulate prostitution, eliminate age limits in favor of a true maturity/inteligence based citizenship test, populate the world with thinking feeling, loving, AI driven or grown sex dolls, and annihilate all sex/relationship/marriage/love law beyond overt harm such as rape, privacy invasion, assault, etc. Flaunt it if ya got it I say, but don't try to make us fight over it. Because people get hurt that way. If you're gunna show off your cookies, be ready to share, or at least sell for a fair price.
Point is, I'm no prude. But confusing sex with art is dishonest. We live in a world that is grossly sexually oppressed. Sex has come to equal art because religion has made sex dirty, corporations have made sex costly, and government has made sex a crime, so we say that our porn is art to keep our girlfriends, wallets, and freedom.
It's REALLY pissing me off.
We say beautiful when we mean fuckable. We say fresh when we mean fuckable. We say adorable when we mean fuckable. And we say Art when we mean porn. Along with all the other advertising and lyrical euphemisms for sex and sexual service. There's virtually no compliment you can pay a girl these days that can't be easily translated or doubled into some sex reference. And calling porn art does not bloody well help. Now don't get me wrong, there are forms of erotic art, The Story of O, I bow before that books greatness for example, but paying a hottie to squirm on the hood of a 300k$ car is not it.
99.99999999999999999% of erotic photographers are closet Johns. (and Janes?)
Bullshit Photographer: “I'm not paying for a sexual favor, I'm making ART, yea thats it, ART. Now here Britney, grip this riding crop in your teeth, squish your tits together, arch your back, and crawl for me.”
Every popular musician has turned into a strip tease artist, singing what amount to one way phone sex into cd's and selling it. I didn't choose the name Britney by chance. Everyone loves a school girl in a short skirt asking “Hit me baby one more time.” Come on, a whole generation of people wanted to pretend they had a spanking fetish like me for 30 seconds when they first saw that video. Girls to, because they saw the effect it was havering on the guys. “You mean I can sport a plaid mini skirt, white panties, with little girl pigtails, and get whatever I want from half the population? Where do I sign up?”
Ticketmaster and Tower Records apparently. And now fucking Stumbleupon as well.
If I had the money I would hire a professional photographer to do nudes of myself styled after each and every one of these so called art pages, white are always full of black and white child like nude models or shaven muscle bound metrosexuals, and see how many people still call it art when it's my flat hairy behind pressed up against the windshield.
Art is something you create, something from your mind and hands. Good photography is an art because of what it takes to get that shot and set construction timing etc. Nude photography is not art. Any funded jack ass can pay a hottie to strip somewhere and squirm around on something while he takes 10,000 photos and pick out the one where she stopped looking like a pill head with ruined dreams of nursing long enough for the shutter to click.
I see living barbie girl #345,836,385 squirming in the sand in front of a beautiful sunset, and I think, I wish that greedy vapid bitch would go get a job that involves actual work and move so I can see that sunset better. And I wish that asshole with the money for a 12mp camera and a trip to Tahiti would take pictures of something without breasts that I can make my back ground without turning my computer into the equivalent of a sticky centerfold scotch taped to the wall in a 15 year old's closet.
Any of my regular readers notice my complete lack of compunction with regard to the personal and subjective tone of this piece? That right. Expect more of this because like is said before.
Thursday, March 20, 2008
From pedophilia to free speech in 5 petitions flat.
Archive of conversation stemming from this Stumbleupon review.
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So I'm a fascist for wanting this site of the net?
No you’re a fascist for wanting ideas that are damaging to the state to be illegal to talk about.
I really don't think so. Pedophilia is illegal, and endorsement of it is too.
So is drug use, I don’t see your petition to delete high times. Besides since when does legality dictate ethics? Have you personally decided that pedophilia is wrong, or are you letting the government do it for you? Is pedophilia a choice? Is homosexuality? It was illegal for a long time as well you know. You’re simply not being rational. You’re waving a torch and looking for a witch.
If pedophilia is not a legitimate sexual difference, then its merely mental illness, and should be censored about as much as pages about Elvis being an alien. Your reaction justifies their position. You've given the page FAR more attention than it would have otherwise and aided them in the enlistment of support they otherwise never would have had, like from people like me. You made it a free speech issue when you dragged in censorship. You've helped them more than they ever could have. Your desire for control has caused you to lose it.
I really don't understand how can you equate pedophilia with spanking.(I'm agaunst that too as you already know.)
That’s because you’re ignorant. I’d normally be happy to enlighten you, but if you don’t already know, I have my doubts about if you’re even capable. And since you don’t understand the spirit of free speech or the political and social reality of limiting it, how can I possibly expect you to understand equal protection under the law which is a far more esoteric concept, and is at the very heart of the spanking debate.
I agree that there are other horrible things that can befall children and this is one of them.
Some guy writing a page talking about something is a horrible thing happening to them? That's unimaginably insulting to all the children who actually have had horrible things happen to them. You think I made up the Ritalin thing?
This is a simple issue of a content being illegal.
No, it’s an issue of what’s right. This is where your fascism comes into play. Illegal is simply something the state does not want you to do, and now you want it ok to be illegal to even TALK about illegal things, that's fascist. Protesting can be disturbing the peace, outing misconduct of your leaders can be a threat to national security, treating your cancer with marijuana can be possession of narcotics. Legality is irrelevant.
They're not just thinking about having sex with children and no one wants them for a hate crime, they are actively promoting pedophilia.
Innocent until proven guilty doesn’t apply to sexual deviants eh? The only thing that page proves is that someone made a page that advocates an unpopular position. And as I said in my review, you don’t even know the intention of the author for sure, much less the crimes, if any, this mysterious ‘they’ you speak of, may or may not have committed.
As you know, open invitations to violence and illegal conduct are not protected by Freedom of speech.
Again, Fascism. Defense of the state is not why we have freedom of speech. We have freedom of speech because it’s a concession we implicitly force them to give us. IE, in exchange for their tolerance of whatever we have to say, we let them rule us.
Your position that simply because something is illegal it cannot be promoted is absurd. Look at the law, things that are currently illegal are promoted daily, it’s called lobbying and it’s a main point of the legislative process. But before that can begin you must talk about it. And the internet is the best tool for that ever built.
You’re straw manning their position. Sexual law and what defines an adult changes from state to state, and indeed from person to person if you ask me. Effectively what they’re advocating is civil rights issue. While I agree that their reasoning is detestable, again, I say, as American sentient humans they have the right to do so and if you don’t like it you can make a page of your own explaining it and no one (should) will censor you for it.
To ask the government to fight that battle for you is weak, disgusting, and dangerous.Are you so afraid of their view that you think it must be buried?
Face it, you’ve been taken in by hate mongering. And a fox news style vision of what free expression means.
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I don't recall giving you the liberty to publish parts of our private correspondence.
Heh, I don't recall asking, I'll publish what I please, if you don't like it petition me to be censored.
Nevertheless, you are mistaken. Calling me ignorant and fascist is not making your claims any more valid.
No it doesn't, hence the detailed logic I backed my claims up with that does. You apparently ignored those parts, I guess some people are equipped with internal censorship.
I am abhorred that you would equate homosexuality with pedophilia. Where one is a relation between two consenting adults, the other is ALWAYS abuse.
Why? Both are genetically driven sexual aberrations of dynamic social tolerance, no more a choice for the host than eye color. Pedophilia is no more a guarantee of child abuse than being heterosexual guarantee's you'll rape coeds. The only difference is pedophilia have an extremely limited outlet for their desire, since assholes like you make even drawings stories and fiction on the subject illegal dude to your delicate sensibility.
You're blinded by the ego boost of howling for blood with the crowd. You think yourself above animal hate, and that ignorance is dangerous. You're like the bigot trying to justify hatred with crime statistics.
Besides, it's circular. Of course its always abuse, you invalidate their consent by claiming that a child is not a person and can therefor not give consent. But the fact is, some children are smarter and wiser than some adults will ever be. Judging adulthood by chronological distance from birth is outmoded, lazy, and boils down to age discrimination. Don't pretend that consent is the issue. You simply want to make decisions for others. I sympathize believe me, but my freedom depends on their freedom and you're smart enough to recognize that. You're simply being an armchair hero, defending the poor innocent little princess doll baby in your mind from the big bad evil barbed cock monsters drolling and jerking off at her window in big black hats. It's intellectual masturbation pure and simple.
Some guy writing a page talking about something is a horrible thing happening to them? That's unimaginably insulting to all the children who actually have had horrible things happen to them.
I wasn't talking about that site per se; but about pedophilia in general.
But you're attacking the site using arguments that only apply to child rape. You've deliberately mixed your target to distract from the fact that your point is hopelessly flawed. You attack someone's free speech and then try to paint their speech as child rape when the point is speech is not rape, even if it's about, or in support of rape.
In short-- we have a site that promotes and glorifies not only illegal but morally unacceptable and violent, abusive behavior. The site needs to go down.
Others would disagree, and they have as much right as you do to speak, hence the 1st amendment. The Internet is not Disney. And you simply don't have the right to demand that the world think as you do. Your rights end where other's begin, fail to grasp that at your own peril.Aren't we all that guy?
No. Some of us fight for others, even when they are wrong in our opinion.
I'll be reporting you to StumbleUpon for TOS violation.
I don't need to "petition" you for anything.
Since our debate is a waste of time I will be blocking you now.
Good luck, since I didn't use your name. And I didn't mean petition me genius, I meant petition the government via your ineffectual little petition site. And the debate itself was not a waste of time, attempting to convince you personally of anything, is the waste of time.
Thank you for playing and admitting defeat gracefully :)
Thursday, February 21, 2008
Wasted Opportunity: (name withheld by polite request)
This post is the first in a series that will archive my conversations with those whom I feel are wasting a golden opportunity to reach people, and instead spend it on self centered, futile and shallow pursuits.
Our first subject is a very attractive young lady, who for that reason and others has amassed nearly 1000 fans on the stumbleupon social networking site.
You'll notice that while I speak of society and ideas they will speak of me personally, this is a theme that will repeat itself I'm sure.
Her blog is one of a very common type, well formatted and very appealing to look at, that has a variety of font sizes and colors, something that's somewhat difficult to do on stumble without third party tools, or basic html skills.
And while I of course grant that everyone has the freedom to do as they wish so long as that action harms no one, I must express my distaste for those who have the power to help, but feel that aesthetically pleasing is sufficient.
Our conversation is on going and she still may prove me wrong... but here's what we have so far...
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My initial review.
As much as I love Klassy and feel physical pain in attacking someone she likes, I must speak out on yet another lifted art, poetry, lyrics, pretty girl with a thousand fans, blog.
It's so cheap!
Man I wish doing something productive for your species was as popular as selling this idea that we're justified in the pain and horror we cause, because some of us know how to smear dyes on canvas, string together meaningless emotional words, or sing.
I'm sorry, but I've just gotta say it. Artistic skill in a world where people still starve to death is decadent, wasteful, snobbish, and disgusting. And as a writer I recognize that I am equally useless. But at least i realize it, and try to do something for the rest of my species. At least what I write at least tries to be helpful, in the here and now practical sense.
If I had a 15th the following these people have I could have solved the power problem by now and laid the foundation for a colony on mars.
This inability to prioritize is what's going to kill us.
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Our resulting conversation, which starts at the bottom...
Our first subject is a very attractive young lady, who for that reason and others has amassed nearly 1000 fans on the stumbleupon social networking site.
You'll notice that while I speak of society and ideas they will speak of me personally, this is a theme that will repeat itself I'm sure.
Her blog is one of a very common type, well formatted and very appealing to look at, that has a variety of font sizes and colors, something that's somewhat difficult to do on stumble without third party tools, or basic html skills.
And while I of course grant that everyone has the freedom to do as they wish so long as that action harms no one, I must express my distaste for those who have the power to help, but feel that aesthetically pleasing is sufficient.
Our conversation is on going and she still may prove me wrong... but here's what we have so far...
-----
My initial review.
As much as I love Klassy and feel physical pain in attacking someone she likes, I must speak out on yet another lifted art, poetry, lyrics, pretty girl with a thousand fans, blog.
It's so cheap!
Man I wish doing something productive for your species was as popular as selling this idea that we're justified in the pain and horror we cause, because some of us know how to smear dyes on canvas, string together meaningless emotional words, or sing.
I'm sorry, but I've just gotta say it. Artistic skill in a world where people still starve to death is decadent, wasteful, snobbish, and disgusting. And as a writer I recognize that I am equally useless. But at least i realize it, and try to do something for the rest of my species. At least what I write at least tries to be helpful, in the here and now practical sense.
If I had a 15th the following these people have I could have solved the power problem by now and laid the foundation for a colony on mars.
This inability to prioritize is what's going to kill us.
-----
Our resulting conversation, which starts at the bottom...
3:53pm No, you came around, you stopped being all insulting and started to actually answer my claim.
:)
Thanks for post permission. I'll still leave your face and name out. If you grow proud of your words someday let me know, and I'll restore your identity :)
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3:41pm Cute picture, but it doesn't really go with the aesthetics whore persona....
You can post what you want, of course.
You're coming around. See? I knew you would.
Art is the emanation that most closely approximately the spirit (I forget where that comes from, but it sounds like Plato, no? I suppose everything does). You just make me want to post Joan Baez singing All My Trials with a big field of wildflowers. :)
3:19pm Well I removed overt identifiers, you're words are now anonymous, which makes me think of the following. I still want to post the ideas. If I have to I'll just remove your half of the conversation and make a huge gripe about the following link, and the absurdity of 'owning' data.
How far does this privacy of yours extend? I severely dislike this idea of you having rights over my memories.
anyway...
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040319h.jpg
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7:39am Taking PMs (private | personal messages) and posting them on the internet does violate a set of mores. I see you've added my name and avatar. I wish you wouldn't do that. I didn't give you permission to do that, and since I will not have a job in 10 weeks, I'd like to be able to get one without my name coming up in search engines in that matter.
I still strongly disgree with your posting personal messages, but what does having my name and avatar on your blogspot account do for you?
Your call, of course.
Feb 22, 9:13pm P.S. i discovered that cat poster. I too hate the circus. Animals are not tools. I'd prefer to not require any external life to survive, but until the technology gets there we have no choice, which relates to my demand for purpose.
Feb 22, 9:05pm I'm deeply worried about Klassy. She's possibly the most serene individual I've encountered. Whatever is hurting her must be atrociously bad. She's far stronger than I, and I can take a lot. Frankly if I could harm whatever harms her I would, with conviction. But knowing her, she would not approve.
Your experiment seems to be somewhat flawed as I'm sure people will still know what you look like, but, the attempt is a good thing. At least you're beginning to examine the impact your looks have on the reception of your work. Awareness all around was and is my goal.
Art without function is just noise, to me. Music is beautiful because it is an abstraction based on reality, and thus is a tool for pattern recognition, but logic is even more beautiful for the same reason, just like diagnostics and painting. Art gave birth to science, but to hold onto it now while dropping the rest is like burning books. We must move forward, no matter how much we loved the past.
"I don't believe that I would have the fan count that I have if I had the sort of blog you wish I had. "
I'm inclined to agree. And that is deeply sad. But, if you were to use that fan base to get something of practical value, anything, out there something people need to hear but cant get from conventional sources, something they wouldn't normally see without knowing where to look, something you feel passionately about that affects ALL humans, the ends in this context would justify the means, perhaps.
I think you've come to understand what I'm about, or at least have found what I wanted to hear.
"I still think you just like to hit pretty girls to get their attention. "
Yes, so that they will get everyone else's. You are the highest caste, and the most powerful organisms on the planet. You have have a profound responsibility as a result. But because of that unassailable position, you have the options of doing nothing and resting easy that you will only be harassed for your inaction by malcontents and outcasts such as myself.
My blog post and review will be pulled if you wish, as they have served their purpose. But I would very much like your permission to post the rest of it. In any case good luck on your experiment, I hope you learn something that you value.
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Feb 22, 8:17pm I changed my avatar for the day. Poet girl will be back. I am conducting a little poorly-framed experiment to see if the response is to the blog or the avatar. If it's to the avatar, I won't have to work so hard.
I pulled the review because a) it seemed silly to get upset about the review of someone I don't know who only read one page of mine before writing it and b) arguing in public is unseemly.
Luce told me she wrote to you about the review but she misunderstood. She thought you were reviewing Klassy. Something bad happened to Klassy a few days ago and a scathing review would not be timely. She's planning to leave SU anyway, but I am hoping it will pass.
I disagree with you about what my blog should be, but not with your values. I did consider it. I don't believe that I would have the fan count that I have if I had the sort of blog you wish I had. But we have different views on art. There's no separate word for "art" in most African languages, a functionality that I agree with.
The princes would rather talk to me than to you, I am sure.
I still think you just like to hit pretty girls to get their attention. I'm not going to change my blog, at least not much. But I was going to use this as a cat of the day but of course, now I can't. After awhile, perhaps.
Feb 22, 8:00pm Valid point on the surface, but I'm aware of her other projects and identities. She spends a great deal of time on the education of people regarding various issues of social importance. Or at least she did the last time I spoke to her with any regularity.
And once again for the record if that were the case with you a simple link would have been sufficient.
But really, even in the best case for you, would it matter?
Her actions don't impact yours in this context.
I see you changed your avatar photo, and pulled your review. Trying to make my comments appear nonsensical, or are you actually thinking about what I said, or some third option I'm unaware of?
P.S. The first of your defenders cropped up almost immediately. Interestingly enough it's a female with precisely the same sort of blog and fan count as you.
Frankly didn't expect that. I expected princes not other princesses :)
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Feb 22, 7:42pm Socially responsible like this mutual friend of yours? http://morgaine.stumbleupon.com/
So I guess I don't understand why you object to my blog and not to hers.
Feb 21, 5:56pm I went over the links you posted in your review of me. (which will never be removed BTW)
And just for the record, my opinion stands. Wanting the world to be better and writing poetry do not constitute useful action.
I mean really, are free backgrounds going to change the world? Hell, even if they did, you didn't make them.
And seriously, is a poem next to a painting, supposed to prove you aren't using your looks to shamelessly self promote?
Ask yourself, are you angry because I'm insane or because I have a point. If i am insane, what does it matter everyone will know the truth right? I mean I'm obviously wrong aren't i? Or can people be fooled? Will they begin to agree with me even if I am wrong.
Ultimately, does it even matter?
If what you say is true you should not be angry because we're both trying our level best to help humanity, aren't we?
5:41pm Dear Pot,
You chose to live in poverty? Doubtful. You consider your child a burden? Doubtful. Did they pay you for this work? Probably. Would have taken a better job had it come around? One would hope so.
Pretty low to use your offspring as a bargaining chip in an Internet debate. Gotta love the ever played kid card. I just love how people treat children as property and act like they're justified, no wonder the bulk of us turn out to be such monstrous adults. I guess the implication is the usual, right? That I have to agree with you, who are wonderful for having children, and if not I must therefor hate children?
That's usually how people want it to work when they play the kid card. Just trying to illustrate the absurdity of your claim.
And, no it's not enough, not by a long shot. Hard times and doing what you have to do to survive is not a charitable act. Caring for your own children is something you're supposed to do by default, and in fact are extremely lucky to even have the opportunity to do so. Ask anyone who's lost a child. Grow some perspective.
I find it very interesting that you have this attitude of 'I do good because I failed to do evil' given that you worked in drug rehabilitation, which regularly applauds and rewards people for beating addiction. While I agree that beating addiction is a hard and worthy thing, I'd like to ask, where is my reward for never having been addicted?
Worth is the presence of something not the absence of it.
As a human with a mind I may pass judgment on whatever I please, as you do. Intelligence is judgment. The difference between us is that I recognize this as a human right we both have, where as you wish it to be yours alone. What makes you think you are anymore worthy? I know the answer, growing up a pretty female in America. It spoiled you. And yes you're still spoiled to me, because you have an aristocratic view of your own worth. I don't care how hard your adult life turned out, clearly you didn't learn anything from it.
In fact one could argue that you are double responsible to help the impoverished since you claim to ave been one yourself. Or do you subscribe to the Horatio Alger tough-love myth of life in America, where the poor are so because they are lazy and deserve it, and therefor just beating poverty some how absolved you of the responsibilities I claim we all posses?
Morality is simply a system of dogmatically inspired ethics. The terms in this context are interchangeable as rules of benevolent conduct. Their inspiration is irrelevant.
I don't feel that 'people' have to justify anything to me until they make a claim. But you alone are not people as a whole. I'm not judging your blog based on a single page, I gave you a chance (which still stands) to demonstrate my incorrectness and you chose to throw a tantrum instead shouting curses and questioning my sexuality as would be expected of a spoiled brat.
I'm judging you on your actions and ideas as you've expressed them. And yes I will post this communication without your permission because as a participant in the conversation my freedom so speech trumps your freedom of privacy. I have no need to modify your words, because to my mind they illustrate my points.
And as I said, the offer still stands, provide me some examples of you using your 1000 fans to help the world in a practical objective way, and you'll find my response quite favorable and fair.
Sincerely, Kettle.
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5:03pm Dear Arrogant One,
I spent 10+ years of my life living below poverty line, with a university education and a child to support on my own, in order to work at a residential drug rehabilitation program in downtown Los Angeles. Is that enough?
Do you really feel you are in a position to pass judgment on what people do with their blogs? Or dictate what ethics are? Ethics, vs. morality, must be freely embraced.
Why do you feel that people have to justify their existence to you and that you are entitled to judge them based on one page of their blog?
I know you will post this personal communication to your blogspot account without my permission, but do try to include this line so that your many followers see just what you're like.
4:33pm http://innomen.blogspot.com/2008/02/wasted-opportunity.html
Feel free to comment, I'd never censor anyone, unless they were cheating like spam, DOS attacks, or identity theft.
4:15pm Couldn't find a link of value eh? Yea, must be frustrating for you. Perhaps you should try to create some, now that you've noticed the lack. There are plenty of things you can do to help your fellows. Ethically you're required to do so, but hey everyone else ignores their responsibilities, why not the pretty girl everyone wants to own.
Klassy is a wonderful person but also tolerant to an extreme degree. I am not. She is also very into art and emotional expression which explains how she could like you even if you are socially inert. But, (unlike you apparently since you can't find any examples) she balances it with a deep sense of social justice, and effort to correct injustices through political action and commentary.
You exhibit none of the latter, and you have a short temper. As far as justification goes, its not to me, its to society, my claim is that you're wasting your chance to actually help the world, if I'm wrong, then so be it, if I'm right then you should recognize that you have a serious problem, or you're oblivious and callous.
Either way, my opinion is irrelevant.
You're right, beauty is all some people have. Because they refuse to cultivate anything else.
Will beauty feed a person? You're a spoiled brat, in my (again irrelevant) opinion. Far too accustomed to having her buttocks kissed for having what the advertising world has told us for generations is an attractive shell.
P.S. My offer still stands, Demonstrate even the slightest concern for social welfare and I'll alter my review accordingly.
P.P.S. Feel free to block my review to preserve the illusion of universal respect, I would expect no less of an ego as large and unsupported as yours.
The link to the blog post archiving this conversation will arrive shortly.
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4:03pm Too fucking late, your superficial summary stands as is. If you knew Klassy at all, you'd trust her judgment enough to look closely. I am not going to justify myself to you. Google is your friend if you give a damn. If not, I don't. Yes, there is a desperate need for beauty because beauty is redemptive and sometimes it's all we have.
4:00pm Hmmmm, your reply begins to make me question my review.
In this case, seriously link me to something of social merit that you broadcast to your 1000 minions, and I'll remove/change it.
P.S. i understand that the "such as yourself" addition was meant to be insulting, but really, can you accuse me of being a would be prince charming when i just publicly blasted the princess?
P.P.S. Have i not wounded you? Is not being worthless to the species beyond physical attractiveness something you'd like to avoid? Or are you one of those deluded soul who thinks beauty has value in and of itself?
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3:55pm No, you really can't tell me from my first page. I'm sure your review is worth the time you put into it.
But you're right. As the object of male projection far and wide, half a dozen men such as yourself will orgasm as they write me consoling notes because they are so sure you've wounded me.
3:51pm I read your first page, is it not a decent indication of the rest of your work? I see nothing of social value beyond half baked mysticism and an advertisement for a neat bookshelf.
Which you as a person have every right to showcase. But there is a degree of social responsibility one acquires when they have an audience bigger than some towns.
P.S. I'm glad you liked my review. And I have no doubt that when you're done making fun of it, dozens of your fans will kiss your hind side ever more vigorously.
But seriously, which one of us has tried harder to save our collective life?
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3:46pm Did you even read what I write?
But your review is my favorite ever and I will immortalize it on my blog.
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