To Atheists:

Places like this exist because of the threat we pose to them, despite being wrong via incompleteness, and their inability to articulate their comprehension of that threat in the language we understand.

This is true of both sides.

Only our greatest minds can see the gap, and bridge it.

Atheists are as resistant to the idea of their vision being incomplete as theists are to the idea of their vision being incorrect.

We both must finally see past our own limitations.

You know how theists exacerbate the issue, but the rest of you seem blind to the flip side.

Atheists make it worse by acting so certain of the conclusions derived from observation and experimentation. Why such confidence? With only one universe, who's to say the physical rules wont change in the next 20 seconds nullifying the whole of science's data set? You have faith that this will not occur. Past stability is not evidence, correlation does not denote causation.

What happens when there is a question that cannot be answered?

Sure science gives us great control over the physical world, but the great questions remain. Whence comes logic? Why can't we have a square circle?

Science can only explain the physical rules by which existence operates, it cannot explain why those rules are as they are or most importantly why they are, at all.

Not why as in purpose, that's too personal, not why as in origin, that's too linear.

But. Raw. Simple. Why?

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

"Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?" - Stephen Hawking

"Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" - Abraham Lincoln

The Not Rape Epidemic: One Man's Response.

In response to This.

I'm so tired of self indulgent female supremacism being hailed as profundity.

Yes, how girls are treated is quite tragic. But I'm tired of the double standard.

We charge boys as adults routinely, but when it comes to handing out some accountability for poor choices, the bag runs empty when it comes around to a pretty young girl. This country once executed a 13 year old BOY. Boys are routinely sent to what amounts to forced labor camps for routine drug offenses and the like, wherein they are often Actually raped.

I challenge you to find a boy who has completed public school who has not been beaten at least once. If you do, ask him how much time he spent in mortal fear of it.

If I had to pick between having my wrists broken and having my bottom squeezed, I'll go with the squeeze.

You think boys don't have constant sexual humiliation? Or are wedgies actually funny? How about being beaten in the shower room? perhaps being called fagot constantly because the girls giggle at everyone who isn't captain of the football team.

I'm tired of "I was raped" being an exemption from critical response. Well, I'm past caring about how much hate mail I get, someone needs to stand up for the men falsely convicted by a system scared witless of being the monster you paint all men not actively working to defend you, to be.

I'm tired of the judicial system being praised when it punishes and berated when it shows mercy.

Rape (and Not rape) is bad yes, I get it and I agree. But stop acting like it's the holocaust. This is not Sub-Saharan Africa where rape is endemic. lets talk about Not Starvation, how homeless men vastly out number homeless women and eating some brown apple core from a discarded lunch bag kept someone alive. Lets talk about Not Exposure, where a guy just lost a few toes to frost bite but lived through a cold night.

My mouth fell open out of shock. There wasn’t even a question of consent in this case - the damage to the girl’s face attested to that. And yet, here was this defense attorney trying to assassinate the victim’s character. For what?

For what? Lesser conviction of course. I thought you were pre-law. Charging someone for rape+assault and convincing the jury it was just assault can lead to MUCH less jail time, since somehow beating someone into a wheel chair isn't as bad as raping them while they sleep. What does a photo prove other than she was beaten? Does it prove who beat her? Does it prove rape?

I'm tired of the people defending alleged rapists in trial being painted as the devil himself(herself?). I'm tired of everyone acting like this slimy evil lawyer watched it all happen and then gleefully spits on the poor broken princess while counting money.

It's called the jury system. Innocent until proven guilty. Discrediting a witness is standard procedure. If you're so upset about promiscuity being a discredit then take it up with society, not the defense attorney doing his job.

That day in court was the day I fully understood the concept of being raped twice - first during the act and then later during the court proceedings.

Hyperbole much? If being upset by perceived injustice is equal with your (Not) rape experience then I must down play the initial experience because I tell you, when I see bullies get away with being bullies (mainly because being a bully gets one laid eventually since chicks dig a "winner") I hate it but its not like hearing and feeling my wrist snap again.

I'm tired of systematic male abuse being written off or even joked about while occasional female abuse gets prime time coverage.

This is how the Not Rape epidemic spreads - through fear and silence, which become complicit in perpetuating the behaviors described here. Women of all backgrounds are affected by these kinds of acts, regardless of race, ethnicity, or social class.

Heh fear and silence. Like the fear I have of even publishing this and the silence all those men who agree with me must enforce or fear losing their girlfriends? I'm honestly worried merely taking this position and putting my real name to it will net me physical danger. And secretly (or not) you think that's cool.

Because women, despite the monumental courage and sacrifice of previous generations in combating true institutional sexism, have once again learned for themselves, and subsequently taught their daughters, that allure is an acceptable career alternative. That paradoxically "rich" is somehow something you can look for in a mate and not be a whore.

Most of us have pushed these stories to the back of our minds, trying to have some semblance of a normal life that includes romantic and sexual relationships.

Relationships who's terms you completely dictate. Screw your normal life. Normal is being some woman's slave and never having fun sex again if I want the privilege of children. I'm tired of men who are owned having every advantage. I'm tired of "single" equaling "pariah."

However, waiting just behind the tongue is story after story of the horrors other women experience and hide deep within the self behind a protective wall of silence.

I tell you what lady. You don't get any right to complain more than men.

So long as...
.. women call each other sluts and whores like it's a bad thing
.. women go to college merely to find a husband
.. women in other countries get their genitals sliced off
.. women in other countries get stoned by their family when they get raped
.. prison rape is funny
.. women think its ok to use sex appeal to marry a man
.. women demand that men act asexual until they are in the mood
.. women pick brutal belligerent alphas and scorn the quiet law abiding thetas
.. women choose six pack abs over a good heart
.. women let men buy them dinner and booze knowing the men want in their pants
.. more is spent on makeup than healthcare
.. women can make a living selling their worn underwear and men cannot
.. "homemaker" is an inflation/innovation proof career
.. women fellate liars and abandon the honest
.. women go back to beaters
.. women allow their men to hit their kids because they can't fathom getting a job
.. the caring best friend gets a night on the couch
.. being capricious and spoiled is a woman's prerogative
.. women get custody and a check from the court twice as often as not
.. men rot in debtors prison for non child support payment
.. women's advocacy groups get donations while men's advocacy in general is treated like institutionalized sexism
.. women keep marrying men that hand them blood diamonds
.. women can trade something they enjoy for something they can spend .. they lie
.. buying a vibrator is sexy yet buying a flesh light is filthy
.. "having" a women defines success and mental health for a man
.. 99% of songs are hymns about how a woman is the most important thing in life
.. love is synonymous with a woman
.. we all have to pretend that a heart isn't a pictogram of cleavage or ass
.. every movie is a how-to manual of male slavery
.. "true" heroism is dying for a woman,
.. every solider who has a wife/girlfriend is somehow worth more than the one who doesn't
.. the best thing a man can hope for is to die a rich father and husband
.. "family" means pleasing your wife
.. a woman can slap a man with impunity
.. a woman gets half in the divorce despite no hand in the earning
.. sexual harassment laws apply to girls wearing 2 ounce hotpants that say "boy toy"
.. a dead little girl gets more coverage than a dead little boy,
.. "she wants" is a justification
.. its an Amber alert and not an Adam alert
.. burning your boyfriends stuff is ok
.. "emo" means weak
.. men die first
.. women allow a man kicking the crap out of another man to pass for expression of love
.. "girl" gets used on women more than "boy" gets used on men
.. the best models make more than the best surgeons
.. seducing a microphone means a record deal
.. men have to pretend cheerleaders aren't about sex
.. women try to look young but men are perverts if they like it
.. masculism means sexism according to wiki
.. tears are for pussies
.. the difference between stalking and courting is female whim
.. its ok for fathers to act like jealous boyfriends
.. a man's motive is assumed to be sexual whenever possible
.. accusation equals social conviction
.. masturbation is for losers unless you're a woman
.. women blame the men around them for not saving them
.. "fear of commitment" is a character flaw rather than a decision
.. its "her body and her choice" despite requiring my sperm
.. "kick his ass" is an acceptable request coming from a woman
.. man bashing is fashionable
.. female choice drives sexual selection
.. paying for sex is illegal unless you call it a marriage/dating/a relationship
.. "being emotional" excuses the absence of rational thought
.. there are sperm banks and not egg banks (I'm aware extracting an egg is painful)
.. wanting what we are trained to want makes us "perverts"
.. repeated humiliating rejection is considered character building
.. "man up" means shut up.
.. "rape culture" only applies to women despite the majority of victims being men
.. women don't have to carry a rifle (If they really wanted it, it would happen.)
.. women profit from institutionally engineered mass male sexual frustration
.. sexual abuse means a book deal for a woman and jail time for men
.. writing like this means that I must hate women and I should lock my door.

You'll never get pity from me.

Your culture causes these horrors and "Not Rapes".

And you're right... It's Not rape.

But you know what is?

The 821 prison rapes that occurred today which everyone thinks is funny.

How many was that while you were reading this?

At least no one is laughing at your pain. Not even me.

Hidden Goods All the Way Forward.

Warning, the link above has graphic images of this young woman hideously and irrevocably burnt.

This exchange is between me and a fellow stumbler, it is over 18 months old. I'll will update my opinions at the end.

---

Link to original review.

After careful consideration I have to thumbs this down.
I can't help but feel it's only getting attention because of its gruesomeness, and the fact that the victim was an attractive female.

Blaming booze, or a person, is just as valid as blaming cars. Granted if he had not been drinking he may not have had the crash, but if he had, and the outcome had been the same, what would be the difference?

Blame... blame is the only difference. Blame lets you write the event off and still drive to work. Blame lets you feel superior. Blame lets you indulge your animal dark side and get a pat on the back for it.

We can stand in the crowd and yell "BURN HIM!" without feeling like the monsters that we are all capable of being.

Yes, this is heart wrenching, but it's our fault. We stifle innovation at every turn. Skin is an organ people, and stem cells promise to let us regrow organs. The human genome project could let us turn on human organ regeneration, a skill even lowly salamanders have.

All because of the idea of god. Ironic that this message will hit christens the hardest, since if she had died, we could all happily imagine her in heaven. But no she's stuck here, and we get to watch. Ironic because as kind as they are, as kind as they want to appear, and as just and loving as the claim their god is, if she decided to take two weeks of pain killers and sleep for eternity, they mentally and their god actually, would sentence her even after all this useless suffering to an eternity of the same, since suicide is a sin.

This page should make us look at why we have cars filled with gasoline still instead of battery driven cars. This is all our fault, not just the kid who was driving.

Think it through people. Pretend you're capable of it.

----

To which was responded... Which I seem to have totally missed.

Link.

I never know how to rate sites like this...It's really, really sad.

However, my response is more to "Innomen" (below) than to the page.

You said: "if she decided to take two weeks of pain killers and sleep for eternity, they [Christians, I'll guess?] mentally and their god actually, would sentence her even after all this useless suffering to an eternity of the same, since suicide is a sin."

I have 2 thoughts regarding that quote.

First, we have no idea how her accident has impacted the lives of those around her; how it has possibly (probably) caused people from all walks of life to come together in compassion and with a sense of unity for a cause. It's easy to pin blame for disasters on the idea people have of God, but the truth is, everyone is given their freedom of choice to make whatever decisions they choose to make. Is it a just God who removes a person's choice so that person won't make a mistake that will alter a life/lives? Just as our parents really just have the ability to try to show us the right way to go (which they can foresee due to wisdom and experience), they can't make our decisions for us -- if they did, we would learn nothing.

Thought #2: saying that God will condemn a person to hell who commits suicide is merely interpretation. Yes, taking a human life is a sin (at least, wouldn't we all say that taking human life is morally wrong?), but God is the only one who knows us completely -- our hearts, our thoughts -- and judgment will be placed more based on our state of being than on the actual act.... (aside from the fact that Christ atoned for our sins so that if we do our best, he can make up the difference... because, let's face it, we all know we're not perfect :))

That's all, really. I just found your review really interesting, because i carefully considered what "rating" to give the site as well and came up at a loss to choose one way or the other.

----

My response:

What cavalier disregard for quality and quantity of pain. What typical christian reverse for guilt inspired and therefor self serving charity.

I'll skip the dissection of that statement, as such dissection would be lost on those who disagree and redundant for those who do, I'll also skip the issue of eternal punishment and reward since the addition or subtraction of trips to heaven and hell here are unknown and I can defend my position without them.

I simply ask this. After at least a year of this story circulating, has this phantom "sense of unity for a cause" resulted in the termination of drunk driving accidents? Has there even been a measurable drop?

No. In the final analysis the only positive impact this person's being burnt and then kept alive could remotely have is as a final damning stab to at least one person's faith. Personally, fire burned away my faith as well. It also may show the dangers of commuter based infrastructure, and a rather gruesome risk associated with internal combustion vehicles with liquid fuel. Perhaps it also exposes the greed of car manufactures in other ways, since a honey combed gas tank like those found in racing cars would have potentially prevented this as well.

But that is all incidental, the core fact is this. They who knowingly initiate an event are responsible for it and its repercussions. They with the power to prevent and knowledge of an impeding tragedy who fail to do so are directly responsible for good or ill.

The classic theodicy, in other words. Why did god let this happen? So you can wax touchy feely and so I can wax futuristic? No, because the question then becomes why did god allow the evils we shoehorn this travesty into preventing? I suppose for you it's turtles all the way down, or hidden goods all the way forward.

But that's not possible for me because, if I were all powerful, and all knowing. I don't need to be all loving on this one as "remotely loving" will do. I would not have allowed this. I would have found another way to bring people together, if roasting this child alive indeed accomplished that goal. I would have found another way to teach all those concerned whatever lesson I felt was important enough for them to learn to even momentarily contemplate torching a living human.

Does that sound better to you? It certainly does to me. I mean for a person who utters absolutes such as "wouldn't we all say that taking human life is morally wrong" it should be simple for you to grasp Roasting a person alive is also generally bad?

Why allow pain at all? If god is supposed to be perfect then how come I, a pathetic reflection of him, can be more merciful?

If this is the best of all possible worlds, then is your god not the architect of the physical constants that dictate possibility in the first place? If your god is at the mercy of them like I am then who's his god?

Do you realize your logic retroactively justifies ANY act? By your logic injustice does not exist. Why bother with laws and ethics at all godly or otherwise?

Introduction

This place is where I'm going to store all my banter with idiots. I'll be moving stuff of that sort off my primary blog eventually.

Enjoy!

War of the mods: Dartman, forums.mozillazine.org

This one started over a broken search bar post, click here for the original.

After that I sent the following private message. Hilarity ensues

Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 1:52 am
by Innomen

" title="Applause"> " title="Applause"> " title="Applause">

For one, the posts have different objectives. I still want the file list, quite separate from the repair of the search bar.

For two, its amazing how fast you egomaniacs appear from the woodwork when there's a chance to flex your oh so precious digital muscle, but oh so busy with other things when it comes to actually answering a question or two.

Just goes to show you, all revolutionaries are wannabe aristocrats. Perhaps you should skip the middle man and go work for Microsoft.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 2:32 am
by Dartman

Innomen wrote:For one, the posts have different objectives. I still want the file list, quite separate from the repair of the search bar.

Re read your posts. Your post from November 25 has two questions/issues you want solved. Your post from December 20 is stating the same problem as your post from November 25. Hence why it was locked.

Innomen wrote:For two, its amazing how fast you egomaniacs appear from the woodwork when there's a chance to flex your oh so precious digital muscle, but oh so busy with other things when it comes to actually answering a question or two.

Just goes to show you, all revolutionaries are wannabe aristocrats. Perhaps you should skip the middle man and go work for Microsoft.

When you are going to make comments like that, you better make sure you know what you are talking about. Obviously, you don't.

Moderator's have two jobs here.

1) Moderate (police) the forums. eg. Locking posts, removing spam, moving posts, etc.

2) Offer support to other users.

Every member here including admins and moderators are volunteers. We do this when we have time and without pay. I had some free time and decided to stop by the forums. I saw your posts and made the appropriate actions. I don't have to answer your questions. Especially, if I don't have time to do so.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 2:47 am
by Innomen

You consider me beneath you anyway, why bother replying?

Perhaps because I've had the temerity to point out the emperor's bare hind side.

...without pay...

Well aren't we the Buddha.

There is no such thing as a selfless act. Status is often a greater motivator than funding.

You can try to sell the line of Dudley Do-right all night. I'm not buying.

" title="Applause"> Funny you should mention police, they too spend a great deal of time looking for opportunities to be heroes and bullies under the guise of public selfless service.

To be fair you're much closer to a food court security guard.

So perhaps you should go away now. I think some teens over there need to be reminded how much you're in charge.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 2:57 am
by Dartman

Innomen wrote:You consider me beneath you anyway, why bother replying?

Perhaps because I've had the temerity to point out the emperor's bare hind side.

...without pay...

Well aren't we the Buddha.

There is no such thing as a selfless act. Status is often a greater motivator than funding.

You can try to sell the line of Dudley Do-right all night. I'm not buying.

" title="Applause"> Funny you should mention police, they too spend a great deal of time looking for opportunities to be heroes and bullies under the guise of public selfless service.

To be fair you're much closer to a food court security guard.

So perhaps you should go away now. I think some teens over there need to be reminded how much you're in charge.

You obviously have a problem with authority.

Lose your attitude. Keep it up and I will suspend you for X-amount of time. Continue the same attitude after the suspension and I will ban you permanently.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 3:21 am
by Innomen

On what grounds?

That you don't like my privately expressed and solicited opinion?

No one is forcing you to even read let alone respond to my replies.

For the record I have a problem with abused authority.

Authority is necessary for the good of the people in many cases, but when a person accepts the powers granted by that authority without accepting the responsibility and self discipline that is the price of that authority one becomes an abuser.

P.S. I've messaged an administrator asking for clarification on the issue of your having sufficient authority to ban me because a privately expressed and solicited opinion does not meet with your approval.

What other subjective and arbitrary opinion am I required to share with you in order to stay a member on this forum? My favorite color is violet, is that permitted?

I am not required to like you.

I am permitted to express myself.

How about you simply not answer this message if you don't like my responses, attitude, etc?

I will take a reply to this message as permission to continue speaking candidly.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 1:08 pm
by Dartman

So let me get this straight. You're mad at me because I locked your duplicate post and did not help answer your question. I have already explained to you my reasons. If that is a sore spot with you, that is your problem, not mine. Grow up.

I can suspend and/or ban you on the grounds of breaking forum rules.

Innomen wrote:To be fair you're much closer to a food court security guard.

That would be considered an insult. That would be under the two following rules. Be Nice - faq.php?mode=rules#f45 and
Attack/Name calling - faq.php?mode=rules#f48

The rest of your comments are just pointless and is digging yourself a deeper hole. When you get a response from an admin, make sure you tell him you broke the forum rules.

While you're at, read this quote from the rules as well.

Forum Rules wrote:Actions
Don't be stupid. If you can't be mature, find somewhere else to post.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 4:40 pm
by Innomen

You're mad at me because...

You're being petty and you're abusing your position of authority to try and extort some kind of false contrition out of me.

I've been on the net for twelve years, you think you're the first kid to take his ball and go home?

Do you honestly expect me to cower?

If you haven't put it together yet, you don't scare me. You amuse me. We both know I'm right about your behavior.

Take a look at your logic. You go out of your way to reduce the chances of my problem being solved so you can showboat your "authority". I express my opinion, privately, at which point you threaten me.

I point this out, and you claim it is an attack.

Hypocrite. This is not an attack, This is a statement of fact.

Because if that's an attack, then so is this...

...you better make sure you know what you are talking about. Obviously, you don't.

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

And this...

You obviously have a problem with authority.

So I'm mentally ill now? As I said before I have a problem with ABUSE of authority. Don't pretend that I'm just randomly spewing hate at mods because they are mods. Did it ever occur to you to ask me about the second post?

And this...

Grow up.

I'm 29. I'm a free adult male, and I have a right to both my opinion, and to express that opinion. You are the one who continues to harass me. I didn't force you to respond and I told you that if you did respond I'd take it as a further solicitation of my opinion and I would as a result speak freely.

I don't appreciate being called a child just because you're angry at being called out on your bullying.

No attacking or name calling. This includes talking about groups of people, not just individuals.

I didn't call you a poopie head, I labeled you according to your actions, and I made a fitting metaphor there of. If you want to shoe-horn strawman that into the definition of name calling and attack, I cant very well stop you.

Be Nice!
We pride ourselves in being a tight-knit community that polices itself well, and we want to keep it that way.

Be nice? Are you kidding? Do you actually expect me to respect you treating that as some sort of objective standard?

I don't think you're being nice at all, in fact I think you're being quite spiteful, and spoiling for a chance to once again flex those digital muscles.

Once again, no one is forcing you to talk to me. See, I want your opinion, you're more than welcome to talk to me. I don't mind. But I'm not going to force you to read mine.

You're the one clutching at straws looking for a reason to ban me. Is this how you handle all your disagreements?

If you're comfortable banning me on such flimsy pretense, for such obviously emotional and personal reasons, be my guest, all it would do is affirm my position.

I suggest you cease harassing me.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 6:05 pm
by Dartman

Innomen wrote:You're being petty and you're abusing your position of authority to try and extort some kind of false contrition out of me.

No I am not. You flat our broke the rules. Period.

Innomen wrote:I've been on the net for twelve years, you think you're the first kid to take his ball and go home?

Kid? I am in fact older than you. As I've stated before, if you're going to make comments like that, know what you are talking about.

Innomen wrote:Take a look at your logic. You go out of your way to reduce the chances of my problem being solved so you can showboat your "authority". I express my opinion, privately, at which point you threaten me.

When are you going to get it that I was doing my job as a moderator? I locked your DUPLICATE post. This in fact helps you get better help as all discussion is in one thread instead of two. As for not helping you, I moderate/offer support when I can. I will NOT apologise for not answering your post. Locking your post and doing one other moderating process is all I had time for.

Innomen wrote:So I'm mentally ill now? As I said before I have a problem with ABUSE of authority. Don't pretend that I'm just randomly spewing hate at mods because they are mods. Did it ever occur to you to ask me about the second post?

Problem with authority has nothing to do with mentally ill. Why would I need to ask you about your second post? It was a duplicate of your other post. Duplicates are locked. End of discussion.

Innomen wrote:I don't appreciate being called a child just because you're angry at being called out on your bullying.

There you go again stating false things. I never called you a child.

Innomen wrote:Be nice? Are you kidding? Do you actually expect me to respect you treating that as some sort of objective standard?

You're so wound up on trying to win this argument, you must have completely forgotten what you sent to me in your first PM. Let me remind you of what you said.

Innomen wrote:For two, its amazing how fast you egomaniacs appear from the woodwork when there's a chance to flex your oh so precious digital muscle, but oh so busy with other things when it comes to actually answering a question or two.

Just goes to show you, all revolutionaries are wannabe aristocrats. Perhaps you should skip the middle man and go work for Microsoft.

Right off the bat you broke the Be Nice rule. In later PM's your attitude continued and you began name calling. Which is why I told you if you continued, I would suspend and/or ban you. That is not a threat. That will happen...

Innomen wrote:Once again, no one is forcing you to talk to me. See, I want your opinion, you're more than welcome to talk to me. I don't mind. But I'm not going to force you to read mine.

As a moderator here I am not required to read yours or anyone else's PM's, but I do due to the position I hold. This has nothing to do with my authority going to my head as you imply.

Innomen wrote:I suggest you cease harassing me.

Harassing you? More like you're harassing me.

Think about this: You're arguing because I locked your duplicate post and didn't help answer your question. I told you my reasons why, yet you continue to argue. You break the forum rules and when I enforce those rules you claim I am attacking you and abusing my power.

Get this straight. You broke the forum rules. Accept that and move on. If you continue to argue about the rules, or my actions (e.g. harassing) I will suspend you for arguing with and harassing a moderator.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 7:03 pm
by Innomen

Where to begin? What do you want from me? Do you expect to get it though "force"?

You flat our broke the rules. Period.

Setting aside the fact that the rules you mention are for posting not PM, is the fact that the "rules" are so absolutely vague that simply saying hello is in violation of them if you choose to claim so.

We both know the score here. You're having a tantrum, and now you're baiting me. Isn't that against the rules too?

I told you before, no one is forcing you to talk to me. I am never going to agree with you. My opinion of you is going to remain negative so long as you take this nightstick approach to making friends. Again, what do you want from me?

I am in fact older than you.

I ask in all seriousness, is English your native language? Would you have some other legitimate reason for not recognizing a metaphor or a colloquialism? Or are you being deliberately obtuse?

I locked your DUPLICATE post.

You locked a post that was not a duplicate, I was forced to derail the topic of my first post to meet the need I had intended to explore in my second post.

As I already have explained, and would have explained had you contacted me before whipping out the tazer, one post was in search of a file list (which I have no been forced to abandon thanks to you) The other was a repair job. One was academic, the other was practical.

But of course pointing out a mod's mistake is against forum rules. Right?

I will NOT apologise for not answering your post.

Nor do I require you to apologize. I'm not the one after some sort of ring kissing ritual here. In fact, once again, you are completely free to cease speaking to me. I'm content to agree to disagree. It seems you are not. Again, what do you want from me?

Problem with authority has nothing to do with mentally ill.

According to the DSM IV Passive-aggressive personality disorder has "unreasonably criticizes and scorns authority" as one of its facets.

Your claim implied that my distaste with your authority was unreasonable and a personality trait.

Again for the record, I don't have a problem with authority beyond the norm, I have a problem with abused authority.

There you go again stating false things. I never called you a child.

Then what was meant by "Grow up." if not to impune my maturity?

you must have completely forgotten what you sent to me in your first PM

My first PM was in response to your spiteful self serving abuse of power. You then proceeded to threaten and talk down to me. My response was and continues to be appropriate to the situation.

Which is why I told you if you continued, I would suspend and/or ban you. That is not a threat. That will happen...

Keep threatening me, I'll keep being unaffected. You're the one that's harassing me. I have no illusions, I realize that you can ban me and be squarely in the wrong for all to see and I can expect zero recourse. I simply don't care.

As a moderator here I am not required to read yours or anyone else's PM's, but I do due to the position I hold. This has nothing to do with my authority going to my head as you imply.

And if you don't agree with what you read you make countless threats. Not exactly what one would expect from a cool headed professional. Volunteer or otherwise.

Harassing you? More like you're harassing me.

I told you like 5 times, if you say something to me I will say something back. Each time you speak to me you solicit a response. You threaten me and then expect silence, that's not going to happen. I am not a dog to be shushed. So long as you speak to me I have a right to respond that extends beyond any forum policy. Again, if you don't want to continue this conversation. Don't. Otherwise, I will speak my mind.

Think about this: You're arguing because I locked your duplicate post and didn't help answer your question.

Yes, and because you keep threatening me because you personally dislike my position and you keep sending me messages. Do you attempt to intimidate everyone who disagree with your arbitrary actions?

I told you my reasons why, yet you continue to argue.

Indeed, because you were wrong, and because you keep talking to me about it.

You break the forum rules and when I enforce those rules you claim I am attacking you and abusing my power.

Again, the rules are so vague as to be broken any time one speaks should a mod take it into his head to think so, and even if that were not the case, the rules you quoted me were for posting. This is not a post, it is a PM. you are not obligated to respond, you CHOOSE to.

Get this straight. You broke the forum rules. Accept that and move on. If you continue to argue about the rules, or my actions (e.g. harassing) I will suspend you for arguing with and harassing a moderator.

I will not let you win just because you have a badge. You may nightsitck me if you like, and I know you'll get away with it, such is the world. I will not trade a picoliter of my dignity for access to this or any forum.

I'm the type to chain myself to a bulldozer if I feel authority is over stepping its bounds. What makes you think repeating a threat over and over makes it more effective?

For the last time, what is it you expect of me?

Again, if you really want me to "move on" quit dragging me back here.

If you really think I'm wrong and my position has no merit then why bother talking to me? Just delete this message and continue doing what you do.

I'm happy to continue this debate if YOU choose. but I'm also quite happy to never speak to you again, as I have been each time I've closed this window.

Now is no different.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 7:32 pm
by Dartman

Innomen wrote:Where to begin? What do you want from me? Do you expect to get it though "force"?

Here is how it's going to work. I am not going to reply to most of the statements in your most recent PM. All you're doing is re-hashing what's been said already and I don't have time to repeat myself other than the following:

You broke the rules. Get over it and move on.

Innomen wrote:Setting aside the fact that the rules you mention are for posting not PM, is the fact that the "rules" are so absolutely vague that simply saying hello is in violation of them if you choose to claim so.

The Rules say "Forum Rules." The PM system is part of the forum. Therefore, the rules apply everywhere. Nice try on trying to spin it the other way though.

What do I want from you? Accept the fact that you broke the rules and quit arguing about my actions.

In other words, let the whole issue drop.

This is your last chance. If you continue to argue/respond or try to spin my comments via PM, or any other way, I will suspend and/or ban you.

The choice is yours.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 7:56 pm
by Innomen

Get over it and move on.

Accept the fact that you broke the rules and quit arguing about my actions.

In other words, let the whole issue drop.

This is your last chance. If you continue to argue/respond or try to spin my comments via PM, or any other way, I will suspend and/or ban you.

The choice is yours.

What is this the mod equivalent of I know you are but what am I?

If one looks over our chat log one can see that I've been telling you to leave me alone repeatedly.

I told you over and over, if you say something to me that I feel merits a response I will respond. YOU choose to keep messaging me. I told you again and again, I've dropped it every time I close this window. You're the one losing sleep over the Internet being serious business.

I also told you your threats don't mean squat to me.

If you're so hellbent on having the last word and a parting shot, just abuse your power a little more and ban me. Oh but wait, if I'm banned I won't be able to log in to see your clever self serving boot message will I? If that's the case I can see your hesitation.

The Rules say "Forum Rules." The PM system is part of the forum. Therefore, the rules apply everywhere. Nice try on trying to spin it the other way though.

The rules you claim I broke are under the Posting section of the forum rules. Do you need a screen capture?

http://forums.mozillazine.org/faq.php?mode=rules

Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me rules like Crossposting, Off topic, and Topic changing apply to PM as well? What about email addresses, which specifically mentions that PM's are exempt from that rule.

Once again, if you talk to me, I talk back, and I simply do not care if you kick me.

And don't expect me to be the "bigger person" and just let you off the hook because I can. You're the one with the badge, that's the price of power.

Laughable though the word is in this context.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 8:19 pm
by Dartman

Read the rules. Be Nice, Attacks/Name Calling and Actions apply to PM's as well as the open forum. Again, nice try on trying to get around the rules.

I base my suspensions on how active a member is. You have seven posts stretched over a one month period. Specifically, there is nearly a one month gap in between your posts.


I told you to drop it. You didn't, enjoy your vacation.

Your suspension will last for six weeks. Find a way around that suspension and you will be banned permanently.

You will be suspended as soon as I know you have read this PM.

Endofline

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 8:31 pm
by Innomen

Checkmate.

I love winning.

• Quote Dartman

The Company: It's impact on children and the illusion of power. Forums.

Edit: The moderator I later found out was not American, and has English as a second language, and so expecting him to respect ideas like freeness of speech and the absence of censorship would be ethnocentric, and expecting him to fence with me verbally would be radically unfair.

In short in my view the man is utterly off the hook, but I leave this post here because my attack does still apply to those who would defend censorship out of fear, or greed.

---

This post is a copy of an exchange I had with a moderator of a gaming forum that has bowed to censorship pressure applied by Blizzard, a gaming company (WOW, Diablo, etc).

The board has an anti hack policy because it is scared shitless of upsetting Blizzard because the owners of the forum have no spine, and no money even if they had a spine.

They deleted my post where in I explained how to use Autohotkey to make life easier when playing diablo 2.

They claimed it was a hack, I disagree.

Note: This was purposefully not proofread in the interests of time, and I will not edit this because I want it to reflect what I actually sent in the interests of intellectual honesty.

---

Mod:
"How do you define hack then?"

Me:
An alteration of the game to produce an advantage totally not possible without said hack, IE M@phack.

"Just because it's open source, it's not a hack?"

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying because it is open source you can go confirm for yourself that it is not a hack, it does not do anything to diablo files, period. Answer my question about the keyboard, if I had a hardware dfevice that recorded and played back macros would that also be a hack in your mind?

"What if the author of m@phack released its source to the public tomorrow?"

Then you'd know exactly how m@phack circumvents file integrity to produce an illegal command as far as the game rules go. AHK must by definition work within the game's rules.

"It stops being a hack because I can go look at the code?"

No, see above.

"But this doesn't matter all that much. Still, the unfair advantage point stands."

Not really, all AHK does is eliminate the need for practice to produce instant muscle memory recall. I think sufficient money to not have to work to allow for that practice is an unfair advantage. AHK levels the playing field. AHK does not confirm strategic advantage, it simply obviates the need for hours of tedious training. As I said the BEST AHK can do is equal the game's potential speed.

"I don't play PvP either, but it's obvious that it gives you advantage over your enemy."

No it isn't. I still have to have a tp, I still have to survive long enough for it to open, and I still have to be standing in the same place. In short, the rules of the game still apply. Once again it does not alter the game it simply applies a convenience. and again what about a sweet monitor a fast computer and connect a good mouse a good desk a good chair? Seems to me you over look all the "unfair" advantages that stem from money while attacking he ones that are free.

"If Blizzard wanted going to town to be that convenient, as you put it, they would have made a hotkey for it, don't you think? "

They did. The function keys and a wheel. All AHK does is make them all easier to use, and that is not a bloody hack any more than a stick of ram is.

"Let's say we've learned over the years. Let's say that we managed to exist over the years exactly because of these policies. And let's say that I'm not going to further discuss our relationship with Blizzard. "

*facepalm* I simple can't express how disgustingly sycophantic that appears to me. I wouldn't want to discuss a relationship of total servitude either.

"I could say the same thing about your position..."

And you'd be demonstrably logically incorrect, but hey it works for the Scientologists, maybe my theta levels really are important.

"...then who's to decide who's wrong and who's right?"

Reality. Look into it.

"But I wasn't the one to resort to insults, was I? "

I never insulted you I insulted your position and you in so far as your actions define yourself. If you shoot someone in the face you're a killer, the end. That's not an insult just because you don't like it, it's a fact.

And if we're going to go there who's resorting to abuse of power and intimidation tactics? You're too scared of the great white father to even let me disclose my position publicly. My position is looking more valid by the second to any objective eye.

"Only comes to show how weak your arguments are. "

Yeah, that's a laugh, so weak that you wont even let me share them. So weak that you threaten me and erase every trace of them. I'd rather be an asshole than a coward.

"As for rising to position of power - let's just say that when one agrees with what those in position of power have to say, then he doesn't need to question it."

Please, you and I both know you've merely rationalized the idiocy that grants you a perceived advantage. It amazing what people will do for a badge.

Just ban me and be done with it, because I'm never going to kiss your boot. I tried to help you fucking people, and you go all nazi on me. I'm not sure I'd care too awful much at this point, I'm disgusted and disappointed. I deeply hope the majority of you are teenagers, that would excuse this behavior and lack of logic to a large degree.



------

Reply:

You'll be surprised to know that most of us are well past their teenager years, have life, jobs, families and so on, me included. You don't know the first thing about me, but you go berserk on me on things that you don't have idea about, for example how I became an administrator on the site. Think whatever you want, but know that your assumptions are far from the truth.

To answer your question about the comfy chair - a comfy chair isn't software. This is a software forum and we have to draw a line somewhere between software that can be discussed and software that can't be discussed.

Anyway, I really don't see a point in wasting any more of my time in this discussion. Every once in a while, someone appears that simply has to question all decisions made by the staff and send lengthy PMs. But face it, someone has to run this place and someone has to decide what's right and what's wrong on the site. If you don't like it, then there are plenty of unmoderated forums on the web.

Heh. My reply.....



For the record the rest of my message is personal, so if you're the type to kick me after you have your point shattered to the point of embarrassment, you are free to not read beyond this point. And never speak to me again.

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Still with me? Ok then... I warned you.

"You don't know the first thing about me..."

I know that for some reason you care what I think and feel.

I know you didn't respond to a single one of my points, which I am forced to conclude stems from a lack of reasonable response. Of if that was too complex for you. You're wrong and thus have no response beyond what amounts to calling me names.

I know you've chosen to characterize my attack as one on you personally when in fact I've attacked ideas which you may or may not possess. That you've taken those theoretical attacks as personal affronts speak to the extreme likelihood that I've hit the nail on the head.

I know that one can have a family and a job and still be extremely immature, in fact usually families are the result of immaturity given the teen pregnancy rate and the high percentage of pregnancies in the united states being unintentional.

No I don't know your trivia, address anecdotal personal history etc, nor do I care. I'm speaking to your actions and the ideologies defended and supported by those actions (and omissions).

"This is a software forum and we have to draw a line somewhere between software that can be discussed and software that can't be discussed."

That's not an answer to the question. Again, because you know full well you're full of it. But as long as we both know it, my goal is met.

"someone has to run this place"

And apparently that someone is the shadow of blizzard since you're so callow you wont even wait till a complaint is lodged you're labor under some sycophantic delusion regarding what they Might want and your ever present fear of your master's punishment. Taken to such an extreme that you endorse a total dismantling of freeness of speech and wanton censorship of anyone who even hints at opposition.

The only reason you tolerate this is because they've bought you off with a milk bone of illusory power.

But that's fine, my original motivation was to enhance the quality of this board, your callow deletion of it corrects a mistake I didn't even know I had made in that regard, namely that you don't deserve my aid.

"lengthy PM"

Have I moved beyond your limited attention span? My apologies.

"then there are plenty of unmoderated forums on the web."

No there aren't, because sadly your flavor of cowardice is quite common. The whole of the American presence on the Internet seems to deeply fear an angry letter form anyone with a tie. Not surprising given the other injustices we tolerate daily. Your actions are symptoms of a much deeper social problem totally outside your capability to understand. Besides non of them host LOTH, or tons of other mods. You hold people creative works hostage and you damn well know it, so don't act like I have a choice because you know I don't. If I really had a choice, then you're status as mod would be utterly meaningless and you'd not being their slave because they'd have nothing to bribe you with.

But you're right about one thing, this conversation is pointless. you've proven yourself incapable of rational discourse and debate, or even the pretension of willingness to contemplate the validity or invalidity of your precious boards so called policies.

Beyond that your lack of literary skill has robbed this exchange of any entertainment value for me.

And if that slipped past that enormous head of yours, I'll put it more simply.

You're boring me to death.

As I said, please, feel free to never speak to me again. I'm sure you have apples you'd rather be polishing anyway.