To Atheists:

Places like this exist because of the threat we pose to them, despite being wrong via incompleteness, and their inability to articulate their comprehension of that threat in the language we understand.

This is true of both sides.

Only our greatest minds can see the gap, and bridge it.

Atheists are as resistant to the idea of their vision being incomplete as theists are to the idea of their vision being incorrect.

We both must finally see past our own limitations.

You know how theists exacerbate the issue, but the rest of you seem blind to the flip side.

Atheists make it worse by acting so certain of the conclusions derived from observation and experimentation. Why such confidence? With only one universe, who's to say the physical rules wont change in the next 20 seconds nullifying the whole of science's data set? You have faith that this will not occur. Past stability is not evidence, correlation does not denote causation.

What happens when there is a question that cannot be answered?

Sure science gives us great control over the physical world, but the great questions remain. Whence comes logic? Why can't we have a square circle?

Science can only explain the physical rules by which existence operates, it cannot explain why those rules are as they are or most importantly why they are, at all.

Not why as in purpose, that's too personal, not why as in origin, that's too linear.

But. Raw. Simple. Why?

"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

"Even if there is only one possible unified theory, it is just a set of rules and equations. What is it that breathes fire into the equations and makes a universe for them to describe?" - Stephen Hawking

"Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" - Abraham Lincoln

The Not Rape Epidemic: One Man's Response.

In response to This.

I'm so tired of self indulgent female supremacism being hailed as profundity.

Yes, how girls are treated is quite tragic. But I'm tired of the double standard.

We charge boys as adults routinely, but when it comes to handing out some accountability for poor choices, the bag runs empty when it comes around to a pretty young girl. This country once executed a 13 year old BOY. Boys are routinely sent to what amounts to forced labor camps for routine drug offenses and the like, wherein they are often Actually raped.

I challenge you to find a boy who has completed public school who has not been beaten at least once. If you do, ask him how much time he spent in mortal fear of it.

If I had to pick between having my wrists broken and having my bottom squeezed, I'll go with the squeeze.

You think boys don't have constant sexual humiliation? Or are wedgies actually funny? How about being beaten in the shower room? perhaps being called fagot constantly because the girls giggle at everyone who isn't captain of the football team.

I'm tired of "I was raped" being an exemption from critical response. Well, I'm past caring about how much hate mail I get, someone needs to stand up for the men falsely convicted by a system scared witless of being the monster you paint all men not actively working to defend you, to be.

I'm tired of the judicial system being praised when it punishes and berated when it shows mercy.

Rape (and Not rape) is bad yes, I get it and I agree. But stop acting like it's the holocaust. This is not Sub-Saharan Africa where rape is endemic. lets talk about Not Starvation, how homeless men vastly out number homeless women and eating some brown apple core from a discarded lunch bag kept someone alive. Lets talk about Not Exposure, where a guy just lost a few toes to frost bite but lived through a cold night.

My mouth fell open out of shock. There wasn’t even a question of consent in this case - the damage to the girl’s face attested to that. And yet, here was this defense attorney trying to assassinate the victim’s character. For what?

For what? Lesser conviction of course. I thought you were pre-law. Charging someone for rape+assault and convincing the jury it was just assault can lead to MUCH less jail time, since somehow beating someone into a wheel chair isn't as bad as raping them while they sleep. What does a photo prove other than she was beaten? Does it prove who beat her? Does it prove rape?

I'm tired of the people defending alleged rapists in trial being painted as the devil himself(herself?). I'm tired of everyone acting like this slimy evil lawyer watched it all happen and then gleefully spits on the poor broken princess while counting money.

It's called the jury system. Innocent until proven guilty. Discrediting a witness is standard procedure. If you're so upset about promiscuity being a discredit then take it up with society, not the defense attorney doing his job.

That day in court was the day I fully understood the concept of being raped twice - first during the act and then later during the court proceedings.

Hyperbole much? If being upset by perceived injustice is equal with your (Not) rape experience then I must down play the initial experience because I tell you, when I see bullies get away with being bullies (mainly because being a bully gets one laid eventually since chicks dig a "winner") I hate it but its not like hearing and feeling my wrist snap again.

I'm tired of systematic male abuse being written off or even joked about while occasional female abuse gets prime time coverage.

This is how the Not Rape epidemic spreads - through fear and silence, which become complicit in perpetuating the behaviors described here. Women of all backgrounds are affected by these kinds of acts, regardless of race, ethnicity, or social class.

Heh fear and silence. Like the fear I have of even publishing this and the silence all those men who agree with me must enforce or fear losing their girlfriends? I'm honestly worried merely taking this position and putting my real name to it will net me physical danger. And secretly (or not) you think that's cool.

Because women, despite the monumental courage and sacrifice of previous generations in combating true institutional sexism, have once again learned for themselves, and subsequently taught their daughters, that allure is an acceptable career alternative. That paradoxically "rich" is somehow something you can look for in a mate and not be a whore.

Most of us have pushed these stories to the back of our minds, trying to have some semblance of a normal life that includes romantic and sexual relationships.

Relationships who's terms you completely dictate. Screw your normal life. Normal is being some woman's slave and never having fun sex again if I want the privilege of children. I'm tired of men who are owned having every advantage. I'm tired of "single" equaling "pariah."

However, waiting just behind the tongue is story after story of the horrors other women experience and hide deep within the self behind a protective wall of silence.

I tell you what lady. You don't get any right to complain more than men.

So long as...
.. women call each other sluts and whores like it's a bad thing
.. women go to college merely to find a husband
.. women in other countries get their genitals sliced off
.. women in other countries get stoned by their family when they get raped
.. prison rape is funny
.. women think its ok to use sex appeal to marry a man
.. women demand that men act asexual until they are in the mood
.. women pick brutal belligerent alphas and scorn the quiet law abiding thetas
.. women choose six pack abs over a good heart
.. women let men buy them dinner and booze knowing the men want in their pants
.. more is spent on makeup than healthcare
.. women can make a living selling their worn underwear and men cannot
.. "homemaker" is an inflation/innovation proof career
.. women fellate liars and abandon the honest
.. women go back to beaters
.. women allow their men to hit their kids because they can't fathom getting a job
.. the caring best friend gets a night on the couch
.. being capricious and spoiled is a woman's prerogative
.. women get custody and a check from the court twice as often as not
.. men rot in debtors prison for non child support payment
.. women's advocacy groups get donations while men's advocacy in general is treated like institutionalized sexism
.. women keep marrying men that hand them blood diamonds
.. women can trade something they enjoy for something they can spend .. they lie
.. buying a vibrator is sexy yet buying a flesh light is filthy
.. "having" a women defines success and mental health for a man
.. 99% of songs are hymns about how a woman is the most important thing in life
.. love is synonymous with a woman
.. we all have to pretend that a heart isn't a pictogram of cleavage or ass
.. every movie is a how-to manual of male slavery
.. "true" heroism is dying for a woman,
.. every solider who has a wife/girlfriend is somehow worth more than the one who doesn't
.. the best thing a man can hope for is to die a rich father and husband
.. "family" means pleasing your wife
.. a woman can slap a man with impunity
.. a woman gets half in the divorce despite no hand in the earning
.. sexual harassment laws apply to girls wearing 2 ounce hotpants that say "boy toy"
.. a dead little girl gets more coverage than a dead little boy,
.. "she wants" is a justification
.. its an Amber alert and not an Adam alert
.. burning your boyfriends stuff is ok
.. "emo" means weak
.. men die first
.. women allow a man kicking the crap out of another man to pass for expression of love
.. "girl" gets used on women more than "boy" gets used on men
.. the best models make more than the best surgeons
.. seducing a microphone means a record deal
.. men have to pretend cheerleaders aren't about sex
.. women try to look young but men are perverts if they like it
.. masculism means sexism according to wiki
.. tears are for pussies
.. the difference between stalking and courting is female whim
.. its ok for fathers to act like jealous boyfriends
.. a man's motive is assumed to be sexual whenever possible
.. accusation equals social conviction
.. masturbation is for losers unless you're a woman
.. women blame the men around them for not saving them
.. "fear of commitment" is a character flaw rather than a decision
.. its "her body and her choice" despite requiring my sperm
.. "kick his ass" is an acceptable request coming from a woman
.. man bashing is fashionable
.. female choice drives sexual selection
.. paying for sex is illegal unless you call it a marriage/dating/a relationship
.. "being emotional" excuses the absence of rational thought
.. there are sperm banks and not egg banks (I'm aware extracting an egg is painful)
.. wanting what we are trained to want makes us "perverts"
.. repeated humiliating rejection is considered character building
.. "man up" means shut up.
.. "rape culture" only applies to women despite the majority of victims being men
.. women don't have to carry a rifle (If they really wanted it, it would happen.)
.. women profit from institutionally engineered mass male sexual frustration
.. sexual abuse means a book deal for a woman and jail time for men
.. writing like this means that I must hate women and I should lock my door.

You'll never get pity from me.

Your culture causes these horrors and "Not Rapes".

And you're right... It's Not rape.

But you know what is?

The 821 prison rapes that occurred today which everyone thinks is funny.

How many was that while you were reading this?

At least no one is laughing at your pain. Not even me.

Hidden Goods All the Way Forward.

Warning, the link above has graphic images of this young woman hideously and irrevocably burnt.

This exchange is between me and a fellow stumbler, it is over 18 months old. I'll will update my opinions at the end.

---

Link to original review.

After careful consideration I have to thumbs this down.
I can't help but feel it's only getting attention because of its gruesomeness, and the fact that the victim was an attractive female.

Blaming booze, or a person, is just as valid as blaming cars. Granted if he had not been drinking he may not have had the crash, but if he had, and the outcome had been the same, what would be the difference?

Blame... blame is the only difference. Blame lets you write the event off and still drive to work. Blame lets you feel superior. Blame lets you indulge your animal dark side and get a pat on the back for it.

We can stand in the crowd and yell "BURN HIM!" without feeling like the monsters that we are all capable of being.

Yes, this is heart wrenching, but it's our fault. We stifle innovation at every turn. Skin is an organ people, and stem cells promise to let us regrow organs. The human genome project could let us turn on human organ regeneration, a skill even lowly salamanders have.

All because of the idea of god. Ironic that this message will hit christens the hardest, since if she had died, we could all happily imagine her in heaven. But no she's stuck here, and we get to watch. Ironic because as kind as they are, as kind as they want to appear, and as just and loving as the claim their god is, if she decided to take two weeks of pain killers and sleep for eternity, they mentally and their god actually, would sentence her even after all this useless suffering to an eternity of the same, since suicide is a sin.

This page should make us look at why we have cars filled with gasoline still instead of battery driven cars. This is all our fault, not just the kid who was driving.

Think it through people. Pretend you're capable of it.

----

To which was responded... Which I seem to have totally missed.

Link.

I never know how to rate sites like this...It's really, really sad.

However, my response is more to "Innomen" (below) than to the page.

You said: "if she decided to take two weeks of pain killers and sleep for eternity, they [Christians, I'll guess?] mentally and their god actually, would sentence her even after all this useless suffering to an eternity of the same, since suicide is a sin."

I have 2 thoughts regarding that quote.

First, we have no idea how her accident has impacted the lives of those around her; how it has possibly (probably) caused people from all walks of life to come together in compassion and with a sense of unity for a cause. It's easy to pin blame for disasters on the idea people have of God, but the truth is, everyone is given their freedom of choice to make whatever decisions they choose to make. Is it a just God who removes a person's choice so that person won't make a mistake that will alter a life/lives? Just as our parents really just have the ability to try to show us the right way to go (which they can foresee due to wisdom and experience), they can't make our decisions for us -- if they did, we would learn nothing.

Thought #2: saying that God will condemn a person to hell who commits suicide is merely interpretation. Yes, taking a human life is a sin (at least, wouldn't we all say that taking human life is morally wrong?), but God is the only one who knows us completely -- our hearts, our thoughts -- and judgment will be placed more based on our state of being than on the actual act.... (aside from the fact that Christ atoned for our sins so that if we do our best, he can make up the difference... because, let's face it, we all know we're not perfect :))

That's all, really. I just found your review really interesting, because i carefully considered what "rating" to give the site as well and came up at a loss to choose one way or the other.

----

My response:

What cavalier disregard for quality and quantity of pain. What typical christian reverse for guilt inspired and therefor self serving charity.

I'll skip the dissection of that statement, as such dissection would be lost on those who disagree and redundant for those who do, I'll also skip the issue of eternal punishment and reward since the addition or subtraction of trips to heaven and hell here are unknown and I can defend my position without them.

I simply ask this. After at least a year of this story circulating, has this phantom "sense of unity for a cause" resulted in the termination of drunk driving accidents? Has there even been a measurable drop?

No. In the final analysis the only positive impact this person's being burnt and then kept alive could remotely have is as a final damning stab to at least one person's faith. Personally, fire burned away my faith as well. It also may show the dangers of commuter based infrastructure, and a rather gruesome risk associated with internal combustion vehicles with liquid fuel. Perhaps it also exposes the greed of car manufactures in other ways, since a honey combed gas tank like those found in racing cars would have potentially prevented this as well.

But that is all incidental, the core fact is this. They who knowingly initiate an event are responsible for it and its repercussions. They with the power to prevent and knowledge of an impeding tragedy who fail to do so are directly responsible for good or ill.

The classic theodicy, in other words. Why did god let this happen? So you can wax touchy feely and so I can wax futuristic? No, because the question then becomes why did god allow the evils we shoehorn this travesty into preventing? I suppose for you it's turtles all the way down, or hidden goods all the way forward.

But that's not possible for me because, if I were all powerful, and all knowing. I don't need to be all loving on this one as "remotely loving" will do. I would not have allowed this. I would have found another way to bring people together, if roasting this child alive indeed accomplished that goal. I would have found another way to teach all those concerned whatever lesson I felt was important enough for them to learn to even momentarily contemplate torching a living human.

Does that sound better to you? It certainly does to me. I mean for a person who utters absolutes such as "wouldn't we all say that taking human life is morally wrong" it should be simple for you to grasp Roasting a person alive is also generally bad?

Why allow pain at all? If god is supposed to be perfect then how come I, a pathetic reflection of him, can be more merciful?

If this is the best of all possible worlds, then is your god not the architect of the physical constants that dictate possibility in the first place? If your god is at the mercy of them like I am then who's his god?

Do you realize your logic retroactively justifies ANY act? By your logic injustice does not exist. Why bother with laws and ethics at all godly or otherwise?

Introduction

This place is where I'm going to store all my banter with idiots. I'll be moving stuff of that sort off my primary blog eventually.

Enjoy!

War of the mods: Dartman, forums.mozillazine.org

This one started over a broken search bar post, click here for the original.

After that I sent the following private message. Hilarity ensues

Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 1:52 am
by Innomen

" title="Applause"> " title="Applause"> " title="Applause">

For one, the posts have different objectives. I still want the file list, quite separate from the repair of the search bar.

For two, its amazing how fast you egomaniacs appear from the woodwork when there's a chance to flex your oh so precious digital muscle, but oh so busy with other things when it comes to actually answering a question or two.

Just goes to show you, all revolutionaries are wannabe aristocrats. Perhaps you should skip the middle man and go work for Microsoft.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 2:32 am
by Dartman

Innomen wrote:For one, the posts have different objectives. I still want the file list, quite separate from the repair of the search bar.

Re read your posts. Your post from November 25 has two questions/issues you want solved. Your post from December 20 is stating the same problem as your post from November 25. Hence why it was locked.

Innomen wrote:For two, its amazing how fast you egomaniacs appear from the woodwork when there's a chance to flex your oh so precious digital muscle, but oh so busy with other things when it comes to actually answering a question or two.

Just goes to show you, all revolutionaries are wannabe aristocrats. Perhaps you should skip the middle man and go work for Microsoft.

When you are going to make comments like that, you better make sure you know what you are talking about. Obviously, you don't.

Moderator's have two jobs here.

1) Moderate (police) the forums. eg. Locking posts, removing spam, moving posts, etc.

2) Offer support to other users.

Every member here including admins and moderators are volunteers. We do this when we have time and without pay. I had some free time and decided to stop by the forums. I saw your posts and made the appropriate actions. I don't have to answer your questions. Especially, if I don't have time to do so.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 2:47 am
by Innomen

You consider me beneath you anyway, why bother replying?

Perhaps because I've had the temerity to point out the emperor's bare hind side.

...without pay...

Well aren't we the Buddha.

There is no such thing as a selfless act. Status is often a greater motivator than funding.

You can try to sell the line of Dudley Do-right all night. I'm not buying.

" title="Applause"> Funny you should mention police, they too spend a great deal of time looking for opportunities to be heroes and bullies under the guise of public selfless service.

To be fair you're much closer to a food court security guard.

So perhaps you should go away now. I think some teens over there need to be reminded how much you're in charge.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 2:57 am
by Dartman

Innomen wrote:You consider me beneath you anyway, why bother replying?

Perhaps because I've had the temerity to point out the emperor's bare hind side.

...without pay...

Well aren't we the Buddha.

There is no such thing as a selfless act. Status is often a greater motivator than funding.

You can try to sell the line of Dudley Do-right all night. I'm not buying.

" title="Applause"> Funny you should mention police, they too spend a great deal of time looking for opportunities to be heroes and bullies under the guise of public selfless service.

To be fair you're much closer to a food court security guard.

So perhaps you should go away now. I think some teens over there need to be reminded how much you're in charge.

You obviously have a problem with authority.

Lose your attitude. Keep it up and I will suspend you for X-amount of time. Continue the same attitude after the suspension and I will ban you permanently.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 3:21 am
by Innomen

On what grounds?

That you don't like my privately expressed and solicited opinion?

No one is forcing you to even read let alone respond to my replies.

For the record I have a problem with abused authority.

Authority is necessary for the good of the people in many cases, but when a person accepts the powers granted by that authority without accepting the responsibility and self discipline that is the price of that authority one becomes an abuser.

P.S. I've messaged an administrator asking for clarification on the issue of your having sufficient authority to ban me because a privately expressed and solicited opinion does not meet with your approval.

What other subjective and arbitrary opinion am I required to share with you in order to stay a member on this forum? My favorite color is violet, is that permitted?

I am not required to like you.

I am permitted to express myself.

How about you simply not answer this message if you don't like my responses, attitude, etc?

I will take a reply to this message as permission to continue speaking candidly.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 1:08 pm
by Dartman

So let me get this straight. You're mad at me because I locked your duplicate post and did not help answer your question. I have already explained to you my reasons. If that is a sore spot with you, that is your problem, not mine. Grow up.

I can suspend and/or ban you on the grounds of breaking forum rules.

Innomen wrote:To be fair you're much closer to a food court security guard.

That would be considered an insult. That would be under the two following rules. Be Nice - faq.php?mode=rules#f45 and
Attack/Name calling - faq.php?mode=rules#f48

The rest of your comments are just pointless and is digging yourself a deeper hole. When you get a response from an admin, make sure you tell him you broke the forum rules.

While you're at, read this quote from the rules as well.

Forum Rules wrote:Actions
Don't be stupid. If you can't be mature, find somewhere else to post.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 4:40 pm
by Innomen

You're mad at me because...

You're being petty and you're abusing your position of authority to try and extort some kind of false contrition out of me.

I've been on the net for twelve years, you think you're the first kid to take his ball and go home?

Do you honestly expect me to cower?

If you haven't put it together yet, you don't scare me. You amuse me. We both know I'm right about your behavior.

Take a look at your logic. You go out of your way to reduce the chances of my problem being solved so you can showboat your "authority". I express my opinion, privately, at which point you threaten me.

I point this out, and you claim it is an attack.

Hypocrite. This is not an attack, This is a statement of fact.

Because if that's an attack, then so is this...

...you better make sure you know what you are talking about. Obviously, you don't.

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

And this...

You obviously have a problem with authority.

So I'm mentally ill now? As I said before I have a problem with ABUSE of authority. Don't pretend that I'm just randomly spewing hate at mods because they are mods. Did it ever occur to you to ask me about the second post?

And this...

Grow up.

I'm 29. I'm a free adult male, and I have a right to both my opinion, and to express that opinion. You are the one who continues to harass me. I didn't force you to respond and I told you that if you did respond I'd take it as a further solicitation of my opinion and I would as a result speak freely.

I don't appreciate being called a child just because you're angry at being called out on your bullying.

No attacking or name calling. This includes talking about groups of people, not just individuals.

I didn't call you a poopie head, I labeled you according to your actions, and I made a fitting metaphor there of. If you want to shoe-horn strawman that into the definition of name calling and attack, I cant very well stop you.

Be Nice!
We pride ourselves in being a tight-knit community that polices itself well, and we want to keep it that way.

Be nice? Are you kidding? Do you actually expect me to respect you treating that as some sort of objective standard?

I don't think you're being nice at all, in fact I think you're being quite spiteful, and spoiling for a chance to once again flex those digital muscles.

Once again, no one is forcing you to talk to me. See, I want your opinion, you're more than welcome to talk to me. I don't mind. But I'm not going to force you to read mine.

You're the one clutching at straws looking for a reason to ban me. Is this how you handle all your disagreements?

If you're comfortable banning me on such flimsy pretense, for such obviously emotional and personal reasons, be my guest, all it would do is affirm my position.

I suggest you cease harassing me.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 6:05 pm
by Dartman

Innomen wrote:You're being petty and you're abusing your position of authority to try and extort some kind of false contrition out of me.

No I am not. You flat our broke the rules. Period.

Innomen wrote:I've been on the net for twelve years, you think you're the first kid to take his ball and go home?

Kid? I am in fact older than you. As I've stated before, if you're going to make comments like that, know what you are talking about.

Innomen wrote:Take a look at your logic. You go out of your way to reduce the chances of my problem being solved so you can showboat your "authority". I express my opinion, privately, at which point you threaten me.

When are you going to get it that I was doing my job as a moderator? I locked your DUPLICATE post. This in fact helps you get better help as all discussion is in one thread instead of two. As for not helping you, I moderate/offer support when I can. I will NOT apologise for not answering your post. Locking your post and doing one other moderating process is all I had time for.

Innomen wrote:So I'm mentally ill now? As I said before I have a problem with ABUSE of authority. Don't pretend that I'm just randomly spewing hate at mods because they are mods. Did it ever occur to you to ask me about the second post?

Problem with authority has nothing to do with mentally ill. Why would I need to ask you about your second post? It was a duplicate of your other post. Duplicates are locked. End of discussion.

Innomen wrote:I don't appreciate being called a child just because you're angry at being called out on your bullying.

There you go again stating false things. I never called you a child.

Innomen wrote:Be nice? Are you kidding? Do you actually expect me to respect you treating that as some sort of objective standard?

You're so wound up on trying to win this argument, you must have completely forgotten what you sent to me in your first PM. Let me remind you of what you said.

Innomen wrote:For two, its amazing how fast you egomaniacs appear from the woodwork when there's a chance to flex your oh so precious digital muscle, but oh so busy with other things when it comes to actually answering a question or two.

Just goes to show you, all revolutionaries are wannabe aristocrats. Perhaps you should skip the middle man and go work for Microsoft.

Right off the bat you broke the Be Nice rule. In later PM's your attitude continued and you began name calling. Which is why I told you if you continued, I would suspend and/or ban you. That is not a threat. That will happen...

Innomen wrote:Once again, no one is forcing you to talk to me. See, I want your opinion, you're more than welcome to talk to me. I don't mind. But I'm not going to force you to read mine.

As a moderator here I am not required to read yours or anyone else's PM's, but I do due to the position I hold. This has nothing to do with my authority going to my head as you imply.

Innomen wrote:I suggest you cease harassing me.

Harassing you? More like you're harassing me.

Think about this: You're arguing because I locked your duplicate post and didn't help answer your question. I told you my reasons why, yet you continue to argue. You break the forum rules and when I enforce those rules you claim I am attacking you and abusing my power.

Get this straight. You broke the forum rules. Accept that and move on. If you continue to argue about the rules, or my actions (e.g. harassing) I will suspend you for arguing with and harassing a moderator.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 7:03 pm
by Innomen

Where to begin? What do you want from me? Do you expect to get it though "force"?

You flat our broke the rules. Period.

Setting aside the fact that the rules you mention are for posting not PM, is the fact that the "rules" are so absolutely vague that simply saying hello is in violation of them if you choose to claim so.

We both know the score here. You're having a tantrum, and now you're baiting me. Isn't that against the rules too?

I told you before, no one is forcing you to talk to me. I am never going to agree with you. My opinion of you is going to remain negative so long as you take this nightstick approach to making friends. Again, what do you want from me?

I am in fact older than you.

I ask in all seriousness, is English your native language? Would you have some other legitimate reason for not recognizing a metaphor or a colloquialism? Or are you being deliberately obtuse?

I locked your DUPLICATE post.

You locked a post that was not a duplicate, I was forced to derail the topic of my first post to meet the need I had intended to explore in my second post.

As I already have explained, and would have explained had you contacted me before whipping out the tazer, one post was in search of a file list (which I have no been forced to abandon thanks to you) The other was a repair job. One was academic, the other was practical.

But of course pointing out a mod's mistake is against forum rules. Right?

I will NOT apologise for not answering your post.

Nor do I require you to apologize. I'm not the one after some sort of ring kissing ritual here. In fact, once again, you are completely free to cease speaking to me. I'm content to agree to disagree. It seems you are not. Again, what do you want from me?

Problem with authority has nothing to do with mentally ill.

According to the DSM IV Passive-aggressive personality disorder has "unreasonably criticizes and scorns authority" as one of its facets.

Your claim implied that my distaste with your authority was unreasonable and a personality trait.

Again for the record, I don't have a problem with authority beyond the norm, I have a problem with abused authority.

There you go again stating false things. I never called you a child.

Then what was meant by "Grow up." if not to impune my maturity?

you must have completely forgotten what you sent to me in your first PM

My first PM was in response to your spiteful self serving abuse of power. You then proceeded to threaten and talk down to me. My response was and continues to be appropriate to the situation.

Which is why I told you if you continued, I would suspend and/or ban you. That is not a threat. That will happen...

Keep threatening me, I'll keep being unaffected. You're the one that's harassing me. I have no illusions, I realize that you can ban me and be squarely in the wrong for all to see and I can expect zero recourse. I simply don't care.

As a moderator here I am not required to read yours or anyone else's PM's, but I do due to the position I hold. This has nothing to do with my authority going to my head as you imply.

And if you don't agree with what you read you make countless threats. Not exactly what one would expect from a cool headed professional. Volunteer or otherwise.

Harassing you? More like you're harassing me.

I told you like 5 times, if you say something to me I will say something back. Each time you speak to me you solicit a response. You threaten me and then expect silence, that's not going to happen. I am not a dog to be shushed. So long as you speak to me I have a right to respond that extends beyond any forum policy. Again, if you don't want to continue this conversation. Don't. Otherwise, I will speak my mind.

Think about this: You're arguing because I locked your duplicate post and didn't help answer your question.

Yes, and because you keep threatening me because you personally dislike my position and you keep sending me messages. Do you attempt to intimidate everyone who disagree with your arbitrary actions?

I told you my reasons why, yet you continue to argue.

Indeed, because you were wrong, and because you keep talking to me about it.

You break the forum rules and when I enforce those rules you claim I am attacking you and abusing my power.

Again, the rules are so vague as to be broken any time one speaks should a mod take it into his head to think so, and even if that were not the case, the rules you quoted me were for posting. This is not a post, it is a PM. you are not obligated to respond, you CHOOSE to.

Get this straight. You broke the forum rules. Accept that and move on. If you continue to argue about the rules, or my actions (e.g. harassing) I will suspend you for arguing with and harassing a moderator.

I will not let you win just because you have a badge. You may nightsitck me if you like, and I know you'll get away with it, such is the world. I will not trade a picoliter of my dignity for access to this or any forum.

I'm the type to chain myself to a bulldozer if I feel authority is over stepping its bounds. What makes you think repeating a threat over and over makes it more effective?

For the last time, what is it you expect of me?

Again, if you really want me to "move on" quit dragging me back here.

If you really think I'm wrong and my position has no merit then why bother talking to me? Just delete this message and continue doing what you do.

I'm happy to continue this debate if YOU choose. but I'm also quite happy to never speak to you again, as I have been each time I've closed this window.

Now is no different.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 7:32 pm
by Dartman

Innomen wrote:Where to begin? What do you want from me? Do you expect to get it though "force"?

Here is how it's going to work. I am not going to reply to most of the statements in your most recent PM. All you're doing is re-hashing what's been said already and I don't have time to repeat myself other than the following:

You broke the rules. Get over it and move on.

Innomen wrote:Setting aside the fact that the rules you mention are for posting not PM, is the fact that the "rules" are so absolutely vague that simply saying hello is in violation of them if you choose to claim so.

The Rules say "Forum Rules." The PM system is part of the forum. Therefore, the rules apply everywhere. Nice try on trying to spin it the other way though.

What do I want from you? Accept the fact that you broke the rules and quit arguing about my actions.

In other words, let the whole issue drop.

This is your last chance. If you continue to argue/respond or try to spin my comments via PM, or any other way, I will suspend and/or ban you.

The choice is yours.

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 7:56 pm
by Innomen

Get over it and move on.

Accept the fact that you broke the rules and quit arguing about my actions.

In other words, let the whole issue drop.

This is your last chance. If you continue to argue/respond or try to spin my comments via PM, or any other way, I will suspend and/or ban you.

The choice is yours.

What is this the mod equivalent of I know you are but what am I?

If one looks over our chat log one can see that I've been telling you to leave me alone repeatedly.

I told you over and over, if you say something to me that I feel merits a response I will respond. YOU choose to keep messaging me. I told you again and again, I've dropped it every time I close this window. You're the one losing sleep over the Internet being serious business.

I also told you your threats don't mean squat to me.

If you're so hellbent on having the last word and a parting shot, just abuse your power a little more and ban me. Oh but wait, if I'm banned I won't be able to log in to see your clever self serving boot message will I? If that's the case I can see your hesitation.

The Rules say "Forum Rules." The PM system is part of the forum. Therefore, the rules apply everywhere. Nice try on trying to spin it the other way though.

The rules you claim I broke are under the Posting section of the forum rules. Do you need a screen capture?

http://forums.mozillazine.org/faq.php?mode=rules

Are you seriously going to sit there and tell me rules like Crossposting, Off topic, and Topic changing apply to PM as well? What about email addresses, which specifically mentions that PM's are exempt from that rule.

Once again, if you talk to me, I talk back, and I simply do not care if you kick me.

And don't expect me to be the "bigger person" and just let you off the hook because I can. You're the one with the badge, that's the price of power.

Laughable though the word is in this context.

• Quote Dartman

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 8:19 pm
by Dartman

Read the rules. Be Nice, Attacks/Name Calling and Actions apply to PM's as well as the open forum. Again, nice try on trying to get around the rules.

I base my suspensions on how active a member is. You have seven posts stretched over a one month period. Specifically, there is nearly a one month gap in between your posts.


I told you to drop it. You didn't, enjoy your vacation.

Your suspension will last for six weeks. Find a way around that suspension and you will be banned permanently.

You will be suspended as soon as I know you have read this PM.

Endofline

Re: Never fails.

Sent at: Today, 8:31 pm
by Innomen

Checkmate.

I love winning.

• Quote Dartman

The Company: It's impact on children and the illusion of power. Forums.

Edit: The moderator I later found out was not American, and has English as a second language, and so expecting him to respect ideas like freeness of speech and the absence of censorship would be ethnocentric, and expecting him to fence with me verbally would be radically unfair.

In short in my view the man is utterly off the hook, but I leave this post here because my attack does still apply to those who would defend censorship out of fear, or greed.

---

This post is a copy of an exchange I had with a moderator of a gaming forum that has bowed to censorship pressure applied by Blizzard, a gaming company (WOW, Diablo, etc).

The board has an anti hack policy because it is scared shitless of upsetting Blizzard because the owners of the forum have no spine, and no money even if they had a spine.

They deleted my post where in I explained how to use Autohotkey to make life easier when playing diablo 2.

They claimed it was a hack, I disagree.

Note: This was purposefully not proofread in the interests of time, and I will not edit this because I want it to reflect what I actually sent in the interests of intellectual honesty.

---

Mod:
"How do you define hack then?"

Me:
An alteration of the game to produce an advantage totally not possible without said hack, IE M@phack.

"Just because it's open source, it's not a hack?"

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying because it is open source you can go confirm for yourself that it is not a hack, it does not do anything to diablo files, period. Answer my question about the keyboard, if I had a hardware dfevice that recorded and played back macros would that also be a hack in your mind?

"What if the author of m@phack released its source to the public tomorrow?"

Then you'd know exactly how m@phack circumvents file integrity to produce an illegal command as far as the game rules go. AHK must by definition work within the game's rules.

"It stops being a hack because I can go look at the code?"

No, see above.

"But this doesn't matter all that much. Still, the unfair advantage point stands."

Not really, all AHK does is eliminate the need for practice to produce instant muscle memory recall. I think sufficient money to not have to work to allow for that practice is an unfair advantage. AHK levels the playing field. AHK does not confirm strategic advantage, it simply obviates the need for hours of tedious training. As I said the BEST AHK can do is equal the game's potential speed.

"I don't play PvP either, but it's obvious that it gives you advantage over your enemy."

No it isn't. I still have to have a tp, I still have to survive long enough for it to open, and I still have to be standing in the same place. In short, the rules of the game still apply. Once again it does not alter the game it simply applies a convenience. and again what about a sweet monitor a fast computer and connect a good mouse a good desk a good chair? Seems to me you over look all the "unfair" advantages that stem from money while attacking he ones that are free.

"If Blizzard wanted going to town to be that convenient, as you put it, they would have made a hotkey for it, don't you think? "

They did. The function keys and a wheel. All AHK does is make them all easier to use, and that is not a bloody hack any more than a stick of ram is.

"Let's say we've learned over the years. Let's say that we managed to exist over the years exactly because of these policies. And let's say that I'm not going to further discuss our relationship with Blizzard. "

*facepalm* I simple can't express how disgustingly sycophantic that appears to me. I wouldn't want to discuss a relationship of total servitude either.

"I could say the same thing about your position..."

And you'd be demonstrably logically incorrect, but hey it works for the Scientologists, maybe my theta levels really are important.

"...then who's to decide who's wrong and who's right?"

Reality. Look into it.

"But I wasn't the one to resort to insults, was I? "

I never insulted you I insulted your position and you in so far as your actions define yourself. If you shoot someone in the face you're a killer, the end. That's not an insult just because you don't like it, it's a fact.

And if we're going to go there who's resorting to abuse of power and intimidation tactics? You're too scared of the great white father to even let me disclose my position publicly. My position is looking more valid by the second to any objective eye.

"Only comes to show how weak your arguments are. "

Yeah, that's a laugh, so weak that you wont even let me share them. So weak that you threaten me and erase every trace of them. I'd rather be an asshole than a coward.

"As for rising to position of power - let's just say that when one agrees with what those in position of power have to say, then he doesn't need to question it."

Please, you and I both know you've merely rationalized the idiocy that grants you a perceived advantage. It amazing what people will do for a badge.

Just ban me and be done with it, because I'm never going to kiss your boot. I tried to help you fucking people, and you go all nazi on me. I'm not sure I'd care too awful much at this point, I'm disgusted and disappointed. I deeply hope the majority of you are teenagers, that would excuse this behavior and lack of logic to a large degree.



------

Reply:

You'll be surprised to know that most of us are well past their teenager years, have life, jobs, families and so on, me included. You don't know the first thing about me, but you go berserk on me on things that you don't have idea about, for example how I became an administrator on the site. Think whatever you want, but know that your assumptions are far from the truth.

To answer your question about the comfy chair - a comfy chair isn't software. This is a software forum and we have to draw a line somewhere between software that can be discussed and software that can't be discussed.

Anyway, I really don't see a point in wasting any more of my time in this discussion. Every once in a while, someone appears that simply has to question all decisions made by the staff and send lengthy PMs. But face it, someone has to run this place and someone has to decide what's right and what's wrong on the site. If you don't like it, then there are plenty of unmoderated forums on the web.

Heh. My reply.....



For the record the rest of my message is personal, so if you're the type to kick me after you have your point shattered to the point of embarrassment, you are free to not read beyond this point. And never speak to me again.

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Still with me? Ok then... I warned you.

"You don't know the first thing about me..."

I know that for some reason you care what I think and feel.

I know you didn't respond to a single one of my points, which I am forced to conclude stems from a lack of reasonable response. Of if that was too complex for you. You're wrong and thus have no response beyond what amounts to calling me names.

I know you've chosen to characterize my attack as one on you personally when in fact I've attacked ideas which you may or may not possess. That you've taken those theoretical attacks as personal affronts speak to the extreme likelihood that I've hit the nail on the head.

I know that one can have a family and a job and still be extremely immature, in fact usually families are the result of immaturity given the teen pregnancy rate and the high percentage of pregnancies in the united states being unintentional.

No I don't know your trivia, address anecdotal personal history etc, nor do I care. I'm speaking to your actions and the ideologies defended and supported by those actions (and omissions).

"This is a software forum and we have to draw a line somewhere between software that can be discussed and software that can't be discussed."

That's not an answer to the question. Again, because you know full well you're full of it. But as long as we both know it, my goal is met.

"someone has to run this place"

And apparently that someone is the shadow of blizzard since you're so callow you wont even wait till a complaint is lodged you're labor under some sycophantic delusion regarding what they Might want and your ever present fear of your master's punishment. Taken to such an extreme that you endorse a total dismantling of freeness of speech and wanton censorship of anyone who even hints at opposition.

The only reason you tolerate this is because they've bought you off with a milk bone of illusory power.

But that's fine, my original motivation was to enhance the quality of this board, your callow deletion of it corrects a mistake I didn't even know I had made in that regard, namely that you don't deserve my aid.

"lengthy PM"

Have I moved beyond your limited attention span? My apologies.

"then there are plenty of unmoderated forums on the web."

No there aren't, because sadly your flavor of cowardice is quite common. The whole of the American presence on the Internet seems to deeply fear an angry letter form anyone with a tie. Not surprising given the other injustices we tolerate daily. Your actions are symptoms of a much deeper social problem totally outside your capability to understand. Besides non of them host LOTH, or tons of other mods. You hold people creative works hostage and you damn well know it, so don't act like I have a choice because you know I don't. If I really had a choice, then you're status as mod would be utterly meaningless and you'd not being their slave because they'd have nothing to bribe you with.

But you're right about one thing, this conversation is pointless. you've proven yourself incapable of rational discourse and debate, or even the pretension of willingness to contemplate the validity or invalidity of your precious boards so called policies.

Beyond that your lack of literary skill has robbed this exchange of any entertainment value for me.

And if that slipped past that enormous head of yours, I'll put it more simply.

You're boring me to death.

As I said, please, feel free to never speak to me again. I'm sure you have apples you'd rather be polishing anyway.

The Challenge

Jesus Christ I wish I'd get a new response once in awhile. You know where they got the idea to ban cloning? From all the damn clones.

Time and again I get the same attacking argument-free responses, to virtually everything.

But the most verbose, homogeneous, and hateful are those from a particular group.

Women who are so accustomed to be worshiped for the perceived pleasurability of their various orifices, that they post advertisements of them in subtle and not so subtle ways.

Women who are quite obviously to me attempting to auction themselves off to the highest bidder or to secure the future of their thus acquired contracts.

Women for whom honesty is not an option because of the doublethink implicit in their vitriolic attack on what they perceive to be a lower class.

You see, I tell a woman she's trying to profit off of her breasts, and she thinks I'm calling her a whore.

Far from it. I respect whores. Whores are honest and direct and obey the will of the market. No, I see both whores and sluts as sacred almost, doubly so because of the society in which they grew. Whores are usually from poverty, which means the know the truth about society eve if they may not be able to articulate it or exploit it effectively.

And sluts are generous, or at least honest with themselves and unashamed to take what they want when they can get it regardless of social finger waggling. If nothing else, if a woman is a slut and that is her chief "problem" then she's caused more happiness than the average person. And in my view, all it takes to be a good person is causing more happiness than you destroy.

So no I'm not calling you a whore, you don't deserve such a compliment.

Let me run down the usual list of bullshit I get.

For my audacity I am called the follow, or the following claims are made about me. I'm going to answer each one, so that i can post this link as a response to the canned responses I regularly get. I wish I had thought of this approach before but a form letter just didn't seem needed. Looking back, it clearly was. I've spent hours of my life, maybe even days or weeks solid when added up, responding to the human intellectual equivalent of mayflies.

Homosexual: Besides being totally irrelevant, I'm straight. I can't offer proof of this, but then again nor do I feel the need to. I haven't been offended by attacks on my sexuality since 7th grade.

Male chauvinist: Actually I'm closer to a feminist. Men by and large are addled by constant testosterone overdose, and they are unquestionably the most violent gender, this in my view makes them weak. Although I do blame women for this generally in the modern world because of the constant preference for cavemen. It is a biological fact that speciation is a power that rests squarely in the hands of the females. Sexual selection is fueled by the chooser gender and by definition, that is the female of the species. No, if I were a male chauvinist I'd swallow the party line of innocent victim princess mommys that need to be protected and obeyed and sheltered and catered to for all time, and I would ask them to be responsible or accountable for their choices as a group, as men are clearly expected to be. I ask of them what is asked of me because I see them as AT LEAST equal.

Pitiful: Heh, I think you mean pitiable. Anyway, maybe. That's really not up to me. I have pain as much as the next human. to me pity is something reserved for a victim, so if you honestly pity me then it's not my fault anyway. I don't pity myself, I see my life thus far in many way as absurdly lucky, almost ideal in both what I have experienced and what I haven't.

Pathetic: Impossible to rationally counter, too subjective.

Ugly: Impossible to rationally counter, too subjective.

Fat: I'm 6'5" and I weigh 245. I ride my bike twice a day, weather permitting. you call.

Stupid: Not according to my most recent psych evaluation.

Narrow minded: Read my whole blog.

Hateful: Read my Whole blog.

Judgmental: Uhhh, yea, I'm a conscious human, I make judgments constantly. I balance them with being open minded. If people would actually try to argue these point maybe I'd have a different opinion, but calling me names isn't going to persuade me or anyone else. If that's even the point.

Rude: Yea, and so was bring up women's suffrage. Social convention matters to me about as much as a gram of navel lint.

Insane: That's a matter of numbers, and therefor depends on how you look at it. Sure I may be insane by today's standards but if I'm far enough ahead of my time, I'll be vindicated later.

Petty: In anything I'm a lofty minded narcissist. I see everyone else as being petty specially if they can't see past their own genitals.

Troll: I believe every word I say, I am not trying to get a rise out of anyone, I'd prefer universal agreement, but I wont pander to get it either. I don't care if I piss you off, one way or the other, at least not enough to do much about it.

Belittling: See Troll.

Insecure: I advocate polyamory, I post my real face and name online, I posted my psych evaluation. I think of myself as a modern Buddha. If anything I'm an ego maniac. I have one secret that I don't post because of its embarrassing nature, and that's all. I assure you it has nothing to do with these matters anyway.

Friendless: Ironically, As I write this I'm pressed for time due to a social function. I'll admit I don't have many friends, but since everyone is so fond of cliches, I'll repeat one, its not about quantity, its about quality. Besides my circle would be much larger if the Company hadn't set upon them like a pack of velociraptors.

Uneducated: In that I have no degree, sure. However you'll be hard pressed to find a subject of scientific importance that I cannot intelligently discuss. I may not be able to rattle off names and dates without Google's help, but I've got the concepts down. Besides, Bush graduated from Yale, nuff said.

Causeless: HA! Wow. Saving humanity from an Orwellian future isn't a worthwhile cause? I'm trying to show you the one tool which they most use to control you.

Which brings us to The Challenge for my detractors. My supports can do this easily.

If you can answer this question with any degree of insight, you'll have my respect.

The question is this: Why is it advantageous for any of the following, to suppress polyamory and/or support monogamy? Religion/Government/Commerce

You may choose one or all. The only rule is you must not use a self referencing defense. For example you may not say that religion supports monogamy because adultery is a sin, or that government supports monogamy because polygamy is illegal, or that commerce supports monogamy because it is profitable, you must tell me WHY these things are.

It must at least pretend logical rigor and objectivity.

Your move.

Screw Your Rules: Delivery

This post is in response to the general type of statement mocked below. It pisses me off mightily, for a variety of reasons not the least of which is that pandering to the idiot masses for power is what every worthless politician in history has done, and I'm not looking for votes, I'm looking for truth.

Once again, for the cheap seats, if it matters to you more how I say something than what I say then your opinion is worthless to me. You are not human to me, you are a consumer, a demographic, a mindless automaton that follows instructions delivered with the proper syntax. You've abandoned your ability to think critically, and with it your right to influence the future beyond the unavoidables of your physical existence.

I will not feed you what I consider be truth like a bitter pill to a mindless dog.

*Dress it up. Tone it down. Why be so "rude"? Honey than vinigar. People don't want to hear it. Spoon full of sugar. * blah blah blah

I'm going to say what I like, and if you don't like it you can choose to not read it.

You seem to assume its possible to convince people of anything. It is not. At best you plant the seeds in receptive soil, and much like in nature, either it will grow or it will not. Soil/environmental conditions are the prime concern, not how gently I dug the hole.

You seem to think as if this generation is the only one. You seem to think the environment will stay like this forever, and to adapt myself to it and the thinking style that gave birth to it is not a waste of time, when in fact it is.

My delivery and the bitterness of it is precisely the tone I want because my target audience is not the people happy with being lemmings, my target audience is the group that is sick to death and very angry. they are and will be the marginalized intelligent who have been passed over again and again by a culture with a teenager's grasp of profundity and a greed to rival Midas.

And no, those who demand polish and hat-in-hand delivery don't matter. They are meat byproducts. The meek shall inherit, is that it? Funny how those odious sentiments ooze from the lips of the not-so-meek.

My position will have value and find adherents or it will not, and my delivery matters little. Freud was an insufferable asshole, as was Mandelbrot, and Nietzsche and countless others with high self opinion and a deep desire to explore and share their work.

Either I am one of them, or I am a crack pot. I leave that up to your children to decide. Either way they won't care how polite I was.

When thinking of my tone, in the face of my positions correctness or lack of, ask yourself, in 100 years who's gunna care?

I will not pander to you or anyone else's idea of what is "proper". Because when you get right down to it, my position itself is technically "rude" since its basically terrorism according to our current society. Proper is subjective.

Newsflash, I advocate the eradication of the basic need for government using the non violent forces of economics and memetic engineering. I'm a variety of anarchist, I've developed my own religion, and I despise corporations of all stripe, and I think monogamy is a scam. Do you really think that how I explain my position and reasoning matters?

I plan to live for the next 2000 years at the minimum, the people that scoff at my words because of my tone will die out long before me and frankly if we cared what the dead thought, we'd still be worshiping the sun and chasing bison.

This is not the 19th century, and honesty trumps etiquette in the minds of all who matter. Because as comfortable as euphemism and self deception is, I don't want lying morons on my side, savvy?

However, while my goal is merely the discovering truth in order to aid happiness and life, the propagation of it is not against my goals. If those who make these claims of improper delivery see past it, and recognize something of value, you have my leave to translate my work. Just try not to lose the spirit of it.

Gladatorial Meat

Multiplex #48: Happy Birthday, Becky

Now I'm not a moron, I get it, and I do have a sense of humor, I did laugh. But... to me this is a bit like a racist joke, not that ti IS a racist joke, just that it illustrates something that is actually a deep social problem.

Here's what I'm on about... Notice in the first panel how the idea to torture the guy was totally mutual? It looks to me like they both had the same idea at the same time and executed it with equal skill.

Why then does the guy get attacked and the "girl" (despite being 18, and therefor a woman) merely have to announce the presence of a vagina to avoid an assault that most would agree was earned? (If one subscribes to the idea that one CAN earn assault, as most of you do judging from the latest poles on bar behavior and child rearing.)

Quite simply because, like so much gladiatorial meat, men, have almost no value beyond their production capacity. Thus, it's ok for us to fight, even if a slip could result in death for one and life in (or associated with) jail for the other. Further, since the people depicted are low income its not like anything they do matters anyway, except the girl, her job is just to stand around and be hot and pick through suitors, again, like so much meat.

Unlike the worthless (judging from their jobs and income of course, the only things about men that matter besides thier familial status)men, she's not a loser, she's merely unmarried. Which ironically makes her more valuable socially, as she represent a potential sex slave, domestic worker, and status symbol to all who are in the market for such things.

So yea, while I did get a chuckle, I am not amused.

Spanking: More mindlessness.

One can really tell critical thinking is prized highly among the pro assault crowd. /sarcasm

Just recently I saw the following gem.

I think that most people feel that spanking is bad. in some cases, a spanking can help. I very rarely had to spank my kids,,but when I did, they knew that it was because they were doing something that they had been told time and time again not to do.

Beating and spanking are two different things.

Spanking with the goal of producing healthy happy socially adjusted adults is about as adept as the rubber mallet approach to TV repair.

"Duhhhrrrrrr it not doing what me want HIT HIT! I not hit hard... see now it work YAY! Me good parent!"

It's quite simple, on a number of levels. (albeit apparently not simple enough for the shockingly limited average intellect of the pro spanking parent.)

Would you tolerate a spanking from your employer? If he or she were to give you one, what would the charge be? Assault? Sexual battery? Can you talk your way out of assault saying "Well I didn't hit X very hard."

News flash: Children are human citizens and deserve equal protection under the law. Can you legally hit a citizen just because they annoy you?

Past all that, who says what you are asking is reasonable? I knew plenty of people well beyond their parents in both wisdom and intelligence. Knocking some girl up or getting knocked up does not instantly make you fit to parent responsibly or issue order backed by physical force.

That's why we train police and soldiers, and even they have a very hard time of it.

If you're too inept to trick or convince a child into willfully undertaking the desired set of actions, and the only recourse you can think of is punishment, (of any kind, in my opinion) then you're too stupid and callous to be a parent in the first place.

http://nospank.net/arnall.htm

The only reason this is still a debate at all is because The Company wants absentee teen morons raising children so they can provide TV, School, military, and religion, as alternates. Thereby halting social evolution, which is the largest threat to established institutions ever devised.

The average American parent actually raises their own children about as much as the sap paying a 20$ a month guilt check to some kid in Somalia.

Debate.com: Final debate.

From the Webmaster here...

Hi Brandon,

Please keep in mind that the "identity confirmation" is only used to prevent users from creating multiple accounts and thus cheating the other members of the site and the site itself. A user can still debate without confirming their identity, they just cannot vote. Debate.com does not use your cell phone number to send spam, we don't sell it, we don't send you anything but a confirmation code. If e-mail verification worked perfectly we would have stuck with that, but you likely saw what it did on Version 2.0. Users were creating upwards of 10-20 accounts in some cases.

My response...

I'm supposed to trust you? Why? You obviously don't trust me. How about you give me your cell number. I promise I won't sell it. It's against my policy. Is that reassuring? Of course not. Everyone has their price. Once your database gets large enough someone will make an offer on it, or better yet perhaps someone will steal it. There are countless reasons not to do what you do, and only a handful to do it.

If you knew they were creating false accounts then why not delete them? Whatever mechanism you used to spot them could be used to prevent them from registering.

Forums have been dealing with false identities for years. And you'd be able to avail yourself of their creativity if you'd take your page non-profit open source.

Some of the countless available solutions are as follows. Rating systems. Only users with so many posts are allowed to vote. Or here's another, maybe a user has to be rated by so many other users before they can vote, or maybe only one ID per IP. Or an artful combination. Or two voting sections, one for anonymous, one for "verified", and let the viewer decide which is more "accurate." Or something completely different.

The positions expressed in my debate stand. You say I can debate but I can't vote, how aburd(snicker).

Why bother talking when I don't have a say?

P.S. As at least one other has noted. It's no surprise that I'm "losing" my debate. Those who agree with me would not have registered in the first place, and those who can vote clearly think the invasion is tolerable. It's a miracle I got a vote at all. Each one of my votes represent a disgruntled user. Someone who didn't appreciate being asked to empty their pockets into a tray.

Self Defence: MiaDreamR

Wow, still having to write these things. I must say I'm flattered. If what is said about me in this post and others is true in the extent that I somehow have a pathological craving for attention, which I am neither conforming nor disputing given that it is not my place to offer objective valuations of my own subjective character, then I must say I've certainly gotten it.

I think I get hate reviews more frequently now then I did when I was still posting.

But hey responding to them is a blast, so here goes.

This one came from yet another Company girl who thinks individuality and her value as a sentient comes from the degree to which men wish to copulate with her, IE how “pretty” she is. I've said most of this before and by now I really don't care if you're saved from your genes or die a slave to them, so I'm going to assume you understand the bulk of what I'm saying because you've read the rest of my work and understood it as well, or you don't because you can't and you're irredeemable.

I just read your review of my page. Thanks for your opinion. Albeit, a bad one- You're entitled to it. Since you're so hot on the subject (Or maybe you just get off on hearing yourself speak) That wasn't a glamour shot- I'm pretty. And I have the right to be pretty and post my picture if I so choose- I'm not half naked, I'm not posed in a sexual manner- in fact, it's barely a head shot. Just a picture of my face. If you think that is a glamour shot, well thank you- But that "glamour shot" is not license for me to be harassed by horny creepy men and since most of those men don't respond to kind subtle requests, I needed something more blunt and assertive. And it definitely works. Even when self righteous, pompous mouth pieces think otherwise. From the looks of it, you're the one begging on bended knee for attention. And I have no problem with that- whatever gets your through the day- just keep it away from me.

That's the full text of a review pasted here in full so that when/if she changes it my responses won't look absurd, which happens all the time on stumbleupon, one of the myriad reasons I stopped creating content for them.

I'm going to respond in section, they will just be copy pasted from the main review above, you're not seeing double.

That wasn't a glamour shot- I'm pretty.

"Pretty" has come to mean sexually appealing. Do you mean pretty like a waterfall? Pretty like a snowflake? Or pretty like a fashion model. Beyond that, who's this "I'm" you're speaking of? I don't even see you in the picture. I see the ratio of distances between your eyes, nose, chin etc, I see the choices of makeup purchase and application, (which I'll get to in a minute), I see styled hair who's structure you neither designed nor naturally acquired

And I have the right to be pretty and post my picture if I so choose-

And I have the right to move to Iran and take up honor killing as a hobby. Does government tolerance for a thing make it morally correct? your rights end where other's begin and you're contributing to a system that destroys so many lives that its crippled the whole world. Before you met me your ignorance of this behavior was you only ethical fallback, but now that you've been exposed to my position and refuse to even explore it or debate it, you've surrendered that protection. Now you're complicit. In keeping with Godwin's law, I'll mention Nazis. You've gone from ignorant German citizen to Luftwaffe, once you understand and help anyway, you'll be SS. The fact that you think this behavior is your birthright is telling. I'll grant that it is in a way, in the same way it's a cancer cell's birthright to slaughter a pancreas, But that doesn't make it all ok.

I'm not half naked, I'm not posed in a sexual manner- in fact, it's barely a head shot.

Of course you're not half naked, you'll make whoever wants to see that pay nosebleed prices in opportunity costs through verbal contract, and cold hard cash through gifts. The irony is you're doing this on behalf of someone else and you're too dim to realize it even when its presented to you, but hey you're "pretty" so its not like having a brain really matters for you now does it. Not saying you don't have one, but like the fuzzy headed guy said, “you've been given a large brain by mistake".

Just a picture of my face.

Your face? What makes you think its yours? Again the genetics? Ok sure in that way its somewhat unique to you, but out of 6 billion people we have to be talking about an extreme degree of qualifiers. I mean when you pick up a snowflake do you really think of each of them as priceless and unique or do you see snow?

Your eyes naturally that dark? Or did you apply coloring to make them look larger. Your lips naturally that color and do you always drool enough to keep them slippery and wet or again is that an application of some sort? How about blush? Foundation? Hair products from shampoo to conditioner to spray and gel? How about the teeth?

If its your face and yours alone how come it looks like what I see staring at me from every television commercial and fashion magazine? How come its that exact face I see telling me to buy everything from Friday's over priced burgers to life insurance? How come its that face I see on every movie and television love interest extolling one social virtue or another and demanding that I as a man I jump through some absurd hoop to win the right to please you sexually, since if I get that far and only enjoy myself I've still failed?

You're a product honey, and you've rolled off an assembly line as sure as a Toyota. That's not your face. You bought it from a thousand companies and you hung it on your flesh like a sneetche's star.

You seem to claim that this choice is completely non sexual, and that my implication that you're basically whoring yourself (which I have no problem with, BTW, prostitutes and sluts are a greater threat to the Company than I ever could be, in my mind your kind is beneath a whore since a whore to me is a valid and honest profession) is completely unfounded. Here's why.

Again let us examine something you may have been previously ignorant of.

Do you know why each of these things about your face is considered "pretty"? Lets start from the top and work our way down.

Hair. Your hair is treated to look a certain way because it indicates that it will be pleasing to the touch, as benign as that sounds, in the context of the rest of it it little more than a "love handle".

Forehead: No acne there, no shine of sweat, because since “girls” have to be plastic they can't be sweaty, sweaty isn't sexy unless its on a beach or somehow indicative of strenuous sex, or something contributing to sex, like say dancing/stripping, or working out. Along with the rest of the skin exposed in the photo other than your lips and eyes, its been masked completely with foundation to hide the fact that it's not smooth and perfect like a child's. And we have the first taste of why the teen pregnancy rate in America is staggering and why we have a permanent pedophile witch hunt in this country.

Eyebrows. Plucked and trimmed and sculpted, God forbid we're reminded that you, being a human adult have hair. Sexy little girls don't have hair unless its soft and silky smooth, or decoratively petite, demure demure even, pretty, small, controlled. And they have to be dark, lest they escape notice, and everything about a girl has to be noticeable if she's going to be "pretty".

Eyes. You know why you apply darkness to your eyes? Because it makes the eyes themselves which are reflective appear larger in relation to the rest of your head. You know what else has abnormally large eyes? A baby, or a child, or a kitten.

Cheeks. Blushed ever so subtly, to indicate maybe a hint of embarrassment, because you're perhaps thinking about sex, like a blushing bride, and being that you're a good (read submissive) virtuous (read sexually inexperienced, naive, trainable) girl. Always "girl", never "woman", you're only ever a woman when someone is telling you how strong and independent and uncontrollable you are, usually so they can control you.

Nose. Also anti-shine treated, to minimize its visual impact, because once again, since the nose and the ears grow throughout life, a small nose can mean a young person. You're supposed to have a little button nose just like a doll, a pliable unfeeling doll, that won't object too much. A doll that can be purchased and loved in private.

Lips. Ahh the lips, the most blatant part of the product lie that is "your" face. Glistening with gloss, slightly apart. Need I really describe the connotation of slick, pink, wet, slightly open, lips?

Are we seeing a pattern here? Now being that I'm basically discussing profitable pedophilia, I'm sure you'll start calling me a pedophile and thats fine, its nothing haven't heard before. But realize that I neither made up the following picture, or created the market forces, that are ultimately human forces, that made it possible.

Here's what I see, when I look at your picture and the billions like it. From a time when society was slightly more honest with itself about what it was and what it wanted.



But hey I'm just crazy right? And don't forget of low rank. Yea yea, I'm a sex crazed pedophile who lives in his mother's basement shunning all human contact, obviously a failure for having no beer in the house, spending his day divided up equally among hentai, hate speech, and video games, totally ignorant of the real world, stupid and pathetic in every way, a fat pimply virgin geek loser who is just jealous that he can't fuck someone like you and is lashing out. Right? I mean thats just about your position isn't it?

You wish honey, you wish. Enjoy your slave's existence. I suppose I wouldn't mind being a loved pet, a treasured possession of a superior being, or hell, maybe closer to a tick, or a intestinal worm. But I'm just too fond of my dignity to proceed.

Just know this. I look around and I know I earned everything I have, not in some Horatio Alger work way, but in that I understand it, and deserve it. I sleep like a baby knowing for a fact the world is a better place for me being in it. And so long as I am in it and do what I do it keeps being ever so slightly better. I earn my oxygen in happiness. I don't walk down the street and cause suffering and jealousy and self loathing, and then have the Gaul to claim that not only is there nothing wrong with profiting from this wake of horror, it's my right and I should be proud of it.

You, and all your kind, are doomed. You have two choices. Adapt or evolutionary oblivion. Human, or Eloi, you decide. Lucky for your kind those of my intelligence are typically gifted with compassion as well. We'll continue to take care f you long after your sexual value has become a distant memory in the face of other more stimulating pursuits.

Ignorance is no longer an excuse.

P.S. Reply if you wish, or not. Sorry for putting you on ignore on SU, I hate doing that, since I think it hides your review of me, but I'm done wasting time on crating content that only one person sees.

Self Defense: playermatt

Sometimes I feel like I could agree with Innomen, and then he goes batshit crazy the next sentence. It's like, "That makes sense... yes, good point... Ha, I can't believe I'm agreeing with Innomen! Wait. Wait. What the fuck? What the FUCK?" And, sadly, that's only about halfway through the wall of text.

Let me write a (comparatively!) concise version of every essay every written by Innomen, so that you never have to suffer through dedicating two hours of your life to his writings:

I am Innomen, the most original thinker in today's world. My alter-ego is a talking vagina, but forget about that -- I have no issues with women, and I'm definitely not a misogynist. In fact, I envy women! I wish I were a woman. If I were a women, I could have so much power over men, because, as everyone knows, women choose the man; the man never chooses the woman. Never! And I could always be the center of attention, everywhere I go! If only I were a woman... it's so hard being a heterosexual, white male in this matriarchal society. If only I were a woman, I could choose when and with whom to have sex, and I'd never be turned down, because, as we all know, no man has ever turned down a woman for sex. Ever. And I could sleep around all I wanted, with no repercussions at all, because women who sleep around are never vilified in our matriarchal society. If only I were a girl... (sigh) Girls don't know what it's like to be a man, and how hard it constantly is. In fact, did I ever mention that I got beat up in high school? I must be the only person in all of the world who attracted bullies, and, even though it's been over ten years, I still carry those wounds. Let me tell you about each and every bully who ever hurt me, because, let's face it, I'm the important one here. You're here just to be educated or be deprogrammed of your slave-think. I'm here to help you evolve into OH GOD I JUST CAN'T GO ON. I'M STARTING TO GET INSIDE INNOMEN'S HEAD, AND IT'S SCARING ME. AND YET, I CAN'T STOP BECAUSE IT'S CLEARLY UNDER 5000 WORDS. THE AGONY, THE SELF-HATRED, THE FEAR... HELP ME.

This guy is without a doubt my favorite hater for one simple reason. He's me when I was 15. Almost exactly. Its like the time machine paradox for me. I was guilty of every flaw here exposed. And so, what will likely be my final self defense post from stumble upon, given that I'm done producing content for them, barring more blasts from the past, I'm pleased to present my counter argument to this hateful and incorrect review.

Edit: That day I received 3 new reviews of hate, so his was obviously not the last.

First of all, I've been writing my whole life. And a good huge chunk of that body of work is to be found online. He says he dedicated two hours of his life to my “writings” and then complains about the “wall of text”. I'm thinking he had already decided how he felt before he even began reading, if he began reading at all.

I don't blame him really, its a daunting and unpleasant read, because of the daunting and unpleasant subject. But since I'm writing about the foundation of human society, those two traits, if found in relation to this subject at all, should warrant further reading.

Of course, if you're going to make up my position for me, as this young man has down so bluntly, I suppose reading the work isn't needed.

I'm tired of using the word and indeed the concept of strawman, but the repetition is hardly under my control. So long as people chose to argue with their own word rather than mine, I'll continue to point out this fact.

However, if taken as a list of implied arguments, instead as a sarcastic rant, why actually find a critically valuable list of counterpoint to my positions.
So what I'm going to do here is extract those implication to the best of my ability and answer those instead.

Deep down I think if I had met myself when I was 15, I'd have hated the older version, but I would have been fascinated none the less. In order to placate that satisfaction and allow my younger self to save face, I'll respond.

I apologize if I miss the mark with my extracted implications, but thats the price you pay for communicating via sarcasm. Next time figure out what you really mean and say that instead.

So lets get started.

“ My alter-ego is a talking vagina, but forget about that”

The implication being that I'm so obsessed and gender confused that I subcionsioly make my face genitalia.

Well, I will admit that gender roles do occupy a significant portion of my thoughts, but only on a systemic level beyond my personal animal needs. I'm quite comfortable with my body, ,gender and sexuality. I could go on.

“I have no issues with women, and I'm definitely not a misogynist.”

since the entire post is sarcastic, treating phrases as opposites will be common. This is the first such case.

If you seriously believe I hate women then you could not have progressed very far into my “writings”

read the article with woman hating in the title on my blogspot for a complete refutation of the claim that I hate women.

You then go on to imply again that I'm gender confused and wish to be a woman. And that I feel our society is a matriarchy.

Well, again, no, I'm quite comfy having boy parts, and no I don't consider our society a matriarchy My position is that if it were an open matriarchy things would be quite a bit improved. You like many have this lovely mental infection which causes you to make logical leaps it completely wrong directions. In this case the leap from the claim that mating is the most important aspect of social development and that women are the most powerful figure in mate selection and thus mating, to saying that society is ruled by women.

Society is an abstraction given birth to by the mating process, which is controlled by women this does not mean however that society itself is run by women. Far from it, like an abused mother with a gargantuan and aggressive teen, society is run by abusive ignorant greedy men with the fore site of a mayfly, and the morals of a pit viper.

Sure the mother shares a degree of responsibility, if such a thing even exists in the face of various facts about reality, but thats not top say that all social ills can be laid at the feet of women, especially considering that the choices women make in a cold feed back cycle are often controlled by that very society.

“I could choose when and with whom to have sex, and I'd never be turned down, because, as we all know, no man has ever turned down a woman for sex.”

so you think I'm oblivious to the fact that in certain circumstances the male becomes the chooser on a superficial level. Of course males get to choose at times, but only between women who have chosen them. Or women who choose them after being made aware of the fact that they exist as a choice.

This is not the same as claiming that women have never been turned down for sex, far from it, but of course you know all that, you're trolling. You're implying something here that even you don't believe in an effort to annoy me.

Fail. You might have noticed I like written debate, this whole thing is fun for me, I'm on my lunch hour, you're part of my hobby. :)

“And I could sleep around all I wanted, with no repercussions at all, because women who sleep around are never vilified in our matriarchal society.”

no, my position is that women have the authority on a personal level to begin to corrode monogamy, if you had read my work you'd know that I consider myself a champion of equal rights, not just men's rights. The slut player double standard is one of the many things I'd like to see annihilated. I'm well aware of the consequences a woman faces if she frees herself sexually, and wishing to remove those consequences would seem to also serve as an argument against the claim that I'm a women hating gender confused bigot :)

“In fact, did I ever mention that I got beat up in high school? I must be the only person in all of the world who attracted bullies”

First of all there is the implication that I'm supposed to not discuss what happened to me. Second of all is the implication that I can only take issue with a social problem if its a part of my day to day life. Third is the implication that I'm obsessed with my past experience simply because I make mention of it in perfectly relevant contexts, fourth is the implication that for a problem to have merit it must be unique.

Well, one, I'm not ashamed of my life or any of my reactions, my parents taught me from a very early age to not make decisions I would later regret and to grasp the concept that while a decision may have appeared correct t the time it may still be wrong, and that the perfect decision is an illusion. So I'm pretty well without regret.

Two, I use my experiences at the mercy of alpha idiots merely to highlight the duration of the problem and the duration of my thinking about the problem. There is an assumption that in order to know anything you must be 50 and have a degree in it that constantly needs attack. Most of my mention of my past is with an eye towards that sort of explanatory purpose.

Third, I'm well over my experiences on a personal psychological level beyond their impact on the formation of who I am today. In truth I handled what they did pretty well, I never even had nightmares, but I did think a lot about why I was treated as I was, it was a puzzle, and I've always liked puzzles.

And finally, my past is relevant in that I know it continues to happen all over the west. Perhaps everywhere. Anywhere children group, the adults in authority will encourage the males to fight amongst themselves with varying degrees of openness, and encourage the females to choose the strongest among them to desire and, choose the equal among them to actually pair with.

Did it occur to you that I simply care about the experiences of children? If not is that deficiency of imagination honestly my fault?

As a side note, if you can name two of my bullies I'll give you 10$ via PayPal.

“I'm the important one here. You're here just to be educated or be deprogrammed of your slave-think.”

this one is particularly amusing, am I supposed to take a sycophantic tone towards a faceless anonymous reader simply because statistically speaking at least one of them is going to be my superior intellectually or in any other way?

It's my writing on my blog, all about my opinion, and you're attacking my self important perspective? Thats like accusing a marathon running of being in too much of a hurry and overly competitive Have some awareness of the setting man. Do you think I just walk around and lecture people? Opening conversations with “did you know you're a moron?” everything has a time and a place, and this is exactly the time and place for my writing.

I will not speak in eprime simply because you've given up on context and perspective. Besides, the instant I did you'd simply accuse me of being simple minded.

I assume that readers are interested in my opinion when they read my blog. Color me crazy :P

“ I'm here to help you evolve into OH GOD I JUST CAN'T GO ON. I'M STARTING TO GET INSIDE INNOMEN'S HEAD, AND IT'S SCARING ME”

Thats quite interesting because where you stopped is pretty much where the singularity occurs heheh.

I'd stop too, lol.

You actually are in my head to a degree, you just have some slight imperfections in vision. I think you find me threatening because of our similarity. In some ways my mere existence threatens your identity. And I feel your pain. Often time I'll hate in others what I see in myself. But I'm doing better.

Thanks for the banter man, that was a great lunch hour :)