Gun control conversations.

Innomen	10:23pm That's a strawman. What you said was "extremely low rates of violent crimes, murder, and other things." You did not say gun deaths. http://www.allsafedefense.com/news/International/BritvsUSA.htm I don't mind doing the research for you, because when I make a claim the burden of proof is mine. First of all economic conditions and cultural conditions in these countries are radically different from here. Norway for example is almost completely atheist/agnostic, and they tend to be a crime free sort, in any country. Also culturally homogeneous or isolated nations tend to have low crime generally. Secondly, crime statics are somewhat flexible. "Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence." http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri_percap-crime-total-crimes-per-capita Do not make this personal. And do not assume this is my first time having this debate :) Getting rid of gun deaths by getting rid of guns on an island is all well and good, but we're not talking about gun deaths we're talking about crime in general. Personally I don't want to be murdered, raped or robbed, period. The tools used don't really matter much to me. And in all cases I'd rather be armed than disarmed when it comes time to defend myself. Where will it end? Would you have us live like the Amish to prevent computer crime? Look up the slippery slope fallacy. And in addition to all that, the point of gun rights is civil, not criminal or recreational. Owning a gun is not about shooting a burgler, or killing deer. Conceptually it's about an armed public to discourage government tyranny, a point that is rarely brought up, since any talk of such has now become terrorism. Please read on the subject.
F3nr1L	1:51pm The United Kingdom outright bands all automatic and many other types of guns. One must state a valid cause of purpose and go through considerable red tape to get a gun. 6.6% of homicides were committed with a firearm in 2005, at a rate of 1.6 per 100,000 people. In the US, 70% of homicides were committed with a firearm at the rate 5.5 per 100,000. Other countries you should look at the statistics for, which I will not look up for you, are Mexico, Sweden, Norway, and Finland. In addition, it wouldn't hurt to look at laws from all around Europe-- Switzerland is an interesting exception and an example of how effective a nationalistic, militant state is at keeping things under control.
Innomen	1:25pm "They don't seem to understand that dozens of countries around the world have all but banned guns, and they have extremely low rates of violent crimes, murder, and other things." May I have a list of these countries?

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politicalpartypoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/guns4.jpg [politicalpartypoop.com]


"How is 9-11 related to gun control? It's not!"

Because the hijackers reportedly took the planes over using box cutters. I'm a CDWL (weapons carry permit) holder and had I been on board a plane hijacked by a guy with a knife I would have ordered him to the ground with my revolver or disabled him with a leg shot, etc etc.

Airplanes are a unique part of the gun control debate because they represent a model of a gunless society.

Not being a smart ass, just trying to answer your question. I hope this answer is satisfactory, because it was a good question. :)

"You fucking stupid yanks. Seriously, arm everyone and just walk away while the world watches your country implode upon itself. "

Racism is not needed. Beyond that towns which enforce gun ownership have almost zero crime rates. In ALL municipalities, legal gun ownership varies inversely with crime. I'd happily call that bluff, please do arm everyone. My town is armed to the teeth and crime here is limited to domestic disputes and traffic and non violent drug offenses.

I sleep with my door unlocked because everyone knows I have a revolver in my nightstand and a shotgun on my wall.

Reality simply does not bear our the assumption that more guns equals more crime. Self interest assures us that the exact opposite is true. But I do not expect a citizen of a nation containing the most surveilled city on the face of the earth to understand that. Your people long ago gave up any semblance of civil liberties in exchange for a Great White Father style government. Which incidentally, still doesn't prevent crime.

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1557076/Road-with-100-cameras-is-plagued-by-cri... [telegraph.co.uk] )

You should just bring back the crown. It would be more honest, and effective.

Innomen	9:52pm "And no, there is no situation where a weapon would be advantageous to me." Don't confuse your limits with the limits of reality. *I* can think of an infinite variety of situations where a weapon could save your life or the life of a loved one. "Because I was raised to use my hands or use my brain." What do you think a weapon is? The whole difference between us and animals was first demonstrated with weapons. We make spears so we don't need to grow claws, etc. At what point in your fantasy world did technology become distinct from brain power when one is the collective product of the other? "My life is better for it." So far, and I hope this continues, but your logic is a bit like refusing to ride with a helmet just because you haven't crashed yet or can't imagine crashing. "it's sad that people need guns - people like you." 'People like me' in this context merely means those of us without the arrogance of perfect prediction, and the honesty to admit that we're not ninja or a grizzly bears, and may need a weapon in a lethal conflict. "Honestly, evolution will take its course, so plan your burial plots now." Indeed it will. Ironically, you're talking to a cryonicist and a transhumanist. Barring random catastrophe, I'll most likely out live you by an astronomical margin. P.S. Is insult the best you can come up with?
staypuft44	5:07pm And no, there is no situation where a weapon would be advantageous to me. Because I was raised to use my hands or use my brain. My life is better for it, it's sad that people need guns - people like you. Honestly, evolution will take its course, so plan your burial plots now.

Innomen	4:31pm Meat, heh, I like that. You should proof read because it effects how you come across, which you clearly care about, else why bother talking to me at all? Also, does it bother you that your position has all the logical merit of a Jesus toast sighting? I mean really, on what basis do you make these claims? Fear didn't drive me to get a weapon, simple logic did. All of nature is filled with arms races. Intentionally avoiding an option that my enemies have exploited seem self destructive. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_arms_race) You can handle everything? Again I'm glad your life is so rosy up to this point. But are you seriously telling me that you can't think of a single situation where a gun would be advantageous to you? You must have a severely limited imagination. And it will be graded, after a fashion :)
staypuft44	3:37pm Why would I need to proof read my messages? This isn't a graded essay, meat. And I can guarantee you that fear will never drive me to get a weapon, because I can handle anything without one. I'm glad you live in a city full of a bunch of armed, uneducated rednecks. By the laws of evolution, it will be a ghost town in a couple of decades. Which bodes well for the rest of the world, let me tell you.

Innomen	2:37pm Ok, so you're not a racist, you're simply a bigot with a prejudice. "I'll tell you what those shitheads on the plane were missing, and it wasn't a gun, it was balls." I'm pleased your life has been so idyllic that you've never been truly frightened before, seriously. But you need to realize that your experience alone does not constitute evidence in any meaningful sense. Thank for your reply :) P.S. I'd suggest proof reading.
staypuft44	1:46pm And one more thing you unbelievably fat, stupid piece of trailer trash: the word YANK or YANKEE is not racist, it's a way to refer to Americans. The United States is not a race, it's a country. So get a glue and open a book sometime, you might find yourself enlightened a little.
staypuft44	1:38pm I could care less about your backwoods, redneck opinion on arming an entire nation of fuckwits like you with more weaponry. I'll tell you what those shitheads on the plane were missing, and it wasn't a gun, it was balls. God Bless America. Somebody carpet bomb the fucking place already.
Innomen	1:24pm http://innomen.stumbleupon.com/review/20856845/